What does the GTO teach us about what needs to be done with a possible 5th gen Camaro? I personally love the GTO and think it's a great car, so by no means is this a post slamming the GTO at all.
1. The Camaro cannot cost more than 30k. Although the GTO is suppose to be Pontiac's Corvette, it just can't sell like one at that price despite being cheaper than an accual Corvette. An American muscle car, by definition in my mind, has to be affordable to the gear heads. The Camaro must resemble the new Mustang in price.

2. Styling. "Boring" (yes it's debatable) styling cannot compete with mustang's heritage of great styling. Although I am not a fan of the new mustang's looks, car and driver was correct when they said people will notice the 300 HP Mustang drive by, but not nessacarily the 400 HP GTO. Styling cannot be a half fast attempt by GM on the 5th Gen, but something fresh, unique, and "Camaro". By Camaro i mean not a oversized Cobalt, Cavalier or whatever.

3. The Camaro needs to be built in America. I love the aussies, but there is something about the Mustang being American made that makes it special. Especially with the recent mustangs commercials building up this aspect. The American Muscle Car must be made in AMERICA.

4. There must be an affordable entry level Camaro. The GTO pretty much starts and ends at 33k if im not mistaken. The mustang GT is around 25k? I believe what killed the GTO sales is the lack of an entry. Yes the corvette doesn't have an entry level you can argue, but $$$ is money. I think Pontiac should have an LS1 entry level GTO in 05 for about 28k. Just my 2 cents.

5. GM ,in my mind, has the best large production V-8's. This is the heart of the muscle car. However, Ford seems to do all the above better. There is no reason why the Camaro must always be outsold by Mustang. GM has the resources to make the 5th Gen into what the 1st gen was: Chevy's dominating answer to Mustang. The motors will be here. With all the resources GM has, they can do it well. Halfhearted efforts like the GTO will not cut it. Time to get serious GM, or else without the Camaro the American Revolution will be the American Letdown.

 

Good post, and I agree.

Just remember though.............. you don't need to wait for the Camaro. You can head right on down to your local Chevy dealership and buy that Monte Carlo SS, or put money down on a Cobalt SS instead.

Its the same thing............ isn't it???

 

Can't argue with that - good post.

 

I'm really starting to wonder about this.

 

You forgot the most important reason why the GTO did not sell well at the beginning, and really IMO the only reason why: dealer markups.

 

I agree with everything you said. The most important points made, though, are the Camaro must have an affordable V8 model and the styling must not be Boring. Otherwise it will suffer the fate of the GTO.

 

GM needs to listen to what its' target market wants.

 

Also:

Weight is important: I don't care if it has 400HP. I just can't get excited about a sports coupe that weighs 3800-3900lbs.

The Competition is important: While the $20K Mustang and $25K GT compete against many other inexpensive sporty cars the GTO is priced to high to compete with these cars and buyers of cars more expensive than the GTO are not interested in a muscle car. What exactly, is the GTO competing against?

Timing is important: While you were wasting time with this GTO boondoggle, hundreds of thousands of GM fans (car enthusiasts highly influential to others) used up their Camaros and with nowhere else to go, left the GM family.

Your fans are important: While legions of fans were begging for a bang for the buck Camaro, GM gave us an overpriced GT car instead. GM, take this little nugget home: There is no substitute for Camaro. Try substitution at your own peril.

 

I totally agree with everything you said . Ford has kinda pushed GM in a corner , and a rather huge one in every aspect of the pony car market . Which is a win win imo . If we do get the camaro back sometime in the next few years , maybe we WILL see a $25K V8 camaro again with a fair amount of standards like the mustang's loaded $25K "base model" . In todays market a $35K camaro just would not work , with the exception being a Cobra level model . A lil thanks to Nissan too , because the G35 coupe and Nissan 350Z is also forcing GM to bring a knockout package to the market . I have no doubt GM can get the knockout package right , but the price is what I think they will goof up on . Seems current day GM is pricing their cars on the sticker to compensate for a large rebate to to give people a warm fuzzy feeling of a great deal . I hope by the time the camaro comes to play , GM will just be pricing their cars competively without $3-10K rebates .

 

Someone pass me a razor blade.....

 

IMO dont put out a new car that has a engine in it thats been out since 1997 and then make it like its something new...they should have just waited til 05 and the LS2...Not big on the looks but i have to admit I was next to some guy yesterday in a red 04 that he just bought....thing was sexy and sounded bad!

 

Big, heavy, expensive, performance cars, may be nice, but are no replacement for a Camaro/Firebird.

 

I'm disappointed with both the GTO's and the Mustang's heft. They both need to go on a diet.

And sadly, I bet the 06/07 Cobra is a real porker.

 

What GM can learn from the public:

When you bring a classy, well built V-8 rear drive performance car to the US as a gap filler to give the faithful something to hang their hat on until new products can be developed, fully expect enthusiasts to bite the proverbial hand that fed them the car. Expect them to resent the car for what it is and even for what it isn't and was never meant to be.

Quite frankly we have become a pretty ungrateful lot, no suprise to me that Red Planet got sick of hanging around here and it will be in spite of most of us so-called "enthusiasts", not because of us, that we get a new Camaro, if we do.

I'm tired of waiting too, but I get sick of all the trashing of the GTO because I believe 95% of it is misplaced.

95% of people that say it looks boring ar 19 year old boy racers who'd never be able to afford the car. I love the Trans Am look too, but I can also appreciate clean, simple, purposeful lines. The people with the money to buy these cars don't necessarily want gaudy scoops and wings hung all over their cars.

The GTO is the kind of car a young, degreed professional could feel confident driving his boss to lunch in. The F-body was not. There is a touch of CLASS to the GTO the F-body never had. This is why it isn't and wasn't meant to be competition for the Mustang OR a replacement for the F-Body, yet some people continue to resent it for existing when GM could have saved itself a lot of trouble and just not bothered to bring the car here in the first place.

 

thats what the GTO has taught me too...

how to harshly judge a car, despite its merits.