Huh? The article says "restyled". I said "what's restyled about it" and mentioned that it looked like any other Pontiac sedan. You're right that all the Mustangs are very similar to each other - too much alike, IMHO. Irrelavent to my remarks though.

FYI....Meccadeth and BigBlueCruiser sum up my thoughts pretty well, and it comes down to personal preference.....though unlike BBC, I don't care for the Oldsmobile look either.

 

The article used a poor choice of words. This is simply the top trim level available on Grand Prix, so they changed a couple of things. It's still going to look like a Grand Prix, like a Z06 still looks like a Corvette or a Cobra still looks like a Mustang or an SVT Focus still looks like a Focus or......

 

Again, that is your opinion....

The fact is Pontiac sells well and has done so for quite some time...

Olds was ina 20 year funk...and though GM tried to save it..they are probaly better off less the brand.

 

Nothing wrong with that. 300M is a sharp looking car that IMHO is going to be a classic of sorts in the future.

With Pontiac losing all their added on plastic, I think they are looking great for a change instead of simply gaudy.

The GXP is the 1st time I actually took a look at a Bonneville. The new Grand Prix, despite it's incomplete looking nose, is actually a great looking car (a sedan cleverly disguised as a coupe) powered by the wrong wheels.

Oldsmobile hasn't done anything for me since the 80s. They've looked (and remember, this is coming from a guy that loves sleepers ) kinda dull.

 

What is this... I have been reading debates on similarities and dissimilarities of appearance (and participated in some), going back to GTO/GP/GA debates.

It occurred to me some time ago that arguing about this is as productive as arguing over why Aquafina bottled water is better than Dysan, and why you should stop drinking Dysan and switch to Aquafina.

All these debates, particularly posts where strong(er) opinions are voiced over similarities of cars, lead me to ask this question. Do you feel, honestly, really, deep within your heart, that a performance edition of a car (any car) should be a completely separate model on its own platform with unique engine, etc..? GXP or not, you are buying a Grand Prix. That's it. Nothing else. You get a bonus of a different engine and some mild visual effects. I don't see MB doing anything different with AMG, BMW with M, or Audi with S line of performance vehicles. Nor do any other domestic manufacturers do anything beyond this. Whether you're buying a 300 touring or 300 SRT-8, you're still getting a 300.

 

Looks good, the v8 being my favorite part, despite the fact its powering the wrong wheels.

As to it looking like a Grand Prix, IMO it should, because it is a Grand Prix.

And Pontiacs look similar the same way all BMW's do, Mercedes do, Volkswagons do, etc. etc. I agree with Darth, its a shame to see car manufacturers try to make all their cars part of a specific design family but oh well, fact of life I guess. Me personally I like Pontiacs new look.

Just my .02.

 

I don't care if all pontiacs look the same. All mercedez cars look the same. All of BMW's cars look the same except for the 3 series because it hasn't been redesigned yet. Acuras all look the same. Toyotas all look the same. It doesn't matter if the same nameplate's cars resemble eachother, just as long as they don't look like a rip off of another brand's design. If you don't like Pontaic's look, get over it and buy something else. This thread has become pointless, just arguing opinions.

Now what type of motor will the GXP have?

 

5.3L V8 detuned for FWD to 285hp I believe. Someone else chime in if this is wrong.

 

Yep.

The 5.3 is replacing the supercharged 3800 V6 across the board.

 

wonder why GM didn't put the 5.3 V8 in when they redesigned the GP for 2004, if the 3.8 S/C motor was going away in a couple of years

 

I guess GM never pushed the 5.3 for car production...maybe something else caused GM to force the 5.3 into being certified for car use? Hrmmmm

 

Not that I have anything against V-8's, but why are they replacing the S/C V-6 with the 5.3? From what I understand the transaxles tq. rating is already maxed out with the S/C 6! The 5.3, even with 285 h.p. still makes 325 lb.ft. which is 45 more than the transaxle can handle! The only way this could work would be to have the PCM STRANGLE the engines power output to keep from blowing the trans! But this doesn't make sense because you've already got people bitching about how soft the '04 GTP's are because of tq. management & they only make the 280 ft.lb.'s the trans is supposedly designed to handle!

 

It's not a matter of giving the car more power (the SC 3800 can make 300 HP all day long), the issue is they are gonna stop making the 90 degree 3800 all togethor.

The NA 3.8L is getting replaced with the 3500 and 3900 which are based on the GM's 60 degree V6 architecture...and the SC engine is being replaced by the 5.3L. Of course they have to "torque manage" the V8..and it is still FWD, so I am gonna guess to say there will be minimal real world performance gain.

My car has TQ management, and it is the craziest thing. There are times I can floor the car at liek 40 mph in traffic, and it will take off like a bat outta hell. Other times in the same situation, I can floor it, and it feels like a dump truck with a full load of Ron Zarrella's crap.

 

why didn't GM make the trans stronger so they didn't have to torque manage the engine. Sounds like you are neutering a raging bull when they use torque management. Were the 97-03 GTP's torque managed? Can you program out the torque managment?

Also, if they go to the V8, won't it add even more weight to the front end of the car, making it even more nose heavy

 

The 4T65E transaxle has held the W-body back since the old Z34 Lumina. GM has dumped a bit of resources into it, just to get it to the point it is at..and with a new 6 speed transaxle 2 years away they probaly see no point to develop it farther. The 4T85 (Northstar transaxle) was never an option because it was designed for the larger G-bodies and would require extensive chassis modification to fit the W-body. Another factor, is GM has reached what it sees as the limit in terms of developing FWD performance cars. Pontiac will tell you straight up that the Grand Prix is about the limits of performance you will see in a GM FWD car.