Come on, if Jason reveals his source, there could be more heads rolling at GM. I'm also pretty sure that Jason put all he wanted to say into that article, and you aren't going to get anything more out of him through this thread. Maybe as time goes on, we'll get some more hints.

Also, I have the faith. We might not get the Camaro, but it will be RWD, V8, and b!tchin.

 

RWD, V8, and b*tchin.....Chevy has one of thoes already.
Corvette.

 

I think he meant something cheaper?

 

Jason doesn't need to reveal his sources he is VERY well connected within the Camaro community, he and Chris brought this place into existance and it is by his will this place exists. He knows stuff just like Guy does. Take it for what its worth it isn't a 1 post guy telling what he knows. Jason REALLY does know! Of all the people on this board there are at least 20 who could tell you a LOT about future vehicles, and I mean details, if they wanted.

We have really good connections here lets not burn them, like what happened with AH-HA on C&G.

 

1st off, my 1989 Acura had over 260,000 miles on it when I sold it, and it was smooth, quiet and ran/stopped/started just like it did when it had 30,000 miles on it. There is no excuse for GM not being able to create good solid quality. They don't because they have legions of faithful who come back to the slaughterhouse every few years. I also have owned a VW, Pontiac, GM truck, Chevrolet Truck, Nissan Truck, Oldsmobile, BMW and Porsche. In every sense, the foreign manufactured cars were better at what they offered in all cases. They may not have had 400 HP, but they did not compete in the market. Why can't GM make a reliable, tight, smooth, comfortable car with good power. BMW can make a fine auto, that handles great, performs admirably (won't break into the 10's).

You seem to be ticked off becauase I said the new Mustang was a winner. I refer to its welcome in the auto rags, and its overall design changes seem to be a good step forward. I did not say I was going to buy one. As for Chevrolet, there is not one car in their current lineup that I would let my ugly sister ride in the back seat of. Lucky for the Corvette, it doesn't have a back seat, that is their one saving grace.

Let's run the list of "loser" Chevrolet cars available now:

1) Cavalier - a junker with a shiny paint job - $15,000
2) Monte Carlo - V6, FWD, Slow, Boring, looks fast like a NASCAR, but isn't! - $22,000
3) Impala, See #2 above, let's put a couple of SS stickers on it and add $5,000...slow, boring, wallowy - $23,000
4) SSR - WAAAAAAAAY OVERPRICED, worth about 1/2 of its cost. At least there is no back seat for my sister. Poor Sales? Gee, I wonder why! - $44,000
5) Cobalt - A puny little car with a go-fast engine, that will be lucky to live to 60,000 miles. If you are over 5 feet 4 inches, this car is not for you. - $22,000!!!
6) Malibu - another shame to waste a quality nameplate on. I'm sure we'll see an SS version soon! - $22,000
7) Aveo - WTF! $13,000 for 103HP???

If you want to talk about Pontiac... I give credit to the GTO and Grand Prix, but all others are F'UGLY. Oldsmobile is dead, Buick is a wasteland, Cadillac is pretty good, but also overpriced. At least GM has some good trucks.

Of course Ford can boast a few decent rides, but overall, they still have a horrible repair history and overall, their cars are lousy in the resale market and that is due to them being rattle-buckets and "Fix-Or-Repair-Daily" type rides.

I sense that Chrysler may be the next best thing, only because of Mercedes, and they are creative and pushing models out that test the limits of customer appeal. I still don't trust them either, but they are trying.

"A cynic is a skeptic, with experience" Dog!

 

1. The Feds are going to put the "black box recorders" in every car.

2. I don't suffer from very much freeway traffic, and even if gas prices hit European levels I wouldn't sacrifice my performance.

 

I'm not sure if recent efforts from GM can even be described as "trying."

 

While Ultra Dog's analysis of GM is fraught with emotion--his opinion is substantive. As an engineer by education and pilot by profession, I have a profound appreciation for mechanical vehicles that are designed and manufactured with quality. Toyotas and Hondas are in a class all their own--in terms of delivering product quality that the masses can afford. I know GM is quick to point out their gains in "initial quality," but this isn't the only measure of merit that defines a quality product. I recently sold a Camry to a friend of mine at 200K, and it ran like a top until it was totaled in an accident at 250K. Everything was original in the car except for the alternator and items called for under routine maintenance. While this story is purely anecdotal, it is indicative of the unarguable statistical fact that my Camry’s lifespan was the general rule, while a commensurate domestic model would have been the exception. Yes, I do own the Camaro in my signature below... and I love GM performance cars as much as the rest of you here. I am a bona fide Camaroholic, and it is my lifelong dream to won one from each generation. But along with Ultra Dog, I am mystified why a company as resourceful as GM can't build vehicles with QUALITY, PERFORMANCE, VALUE and STYLE. They seem to be lucky if they get 3 of the 4. As I tell those who seek my car buying advice... "If you want a car to satisfy your emotions... buy GM. If you want a car to satisfy your intellect, buy a Toyota."

 

My Z28 has 230,000 miles and it drives pretty similar to a car with MUCH fewer miles. Build quality is still great, might need a new front bumper from all the bugs that hit it at 70+ MPH, but it is still a great car with at least another hundred grand in her before a rebuild.

 

I can say emphatically, 100%, you bet your life, most definately that it's not an "unsubstantiated rumor. I will be the second independent source on this one.

It happened June 17-19 2003 in Sante Fe Springs, right outside of Los Angeles.

As far as the scoring criteria and methods, only those running the thing can tell you that, and it was confidential. The fact that it scored higher than any other GM product (up to that time) I will independantly verify based on what I was told later from another source.

 

I agree, the Mustang is a winner. But Chevrolet, despite NOT having one single solitary car I'd actually consider buying does have a decent lineup. Sure they have to lay a bag on money on the hood, but you have to look at what they are:


Cavaliers actually started around $12,000. With incentives, you could drive off the lot with a base model for around $9-10,000. At that price, you can't say anything about the car... especially since it was maintence free (save oil changes) for 100,000 miles!

The current supercharged Monte Carlo is the quickest Monte Carlo ever made, believe it or not. Yes, I'm including the 454 MCs of the early 70s. Yes, I'm including the MC SS of the 80s. As for it's boring looks, the car's been unchanged for 7 years. What do you expect?

Impala is competing with such exciting marvels of styling as Toyota Camarys and Honda Accords, not Camaros or Mustangs. I rented one over a year ago, and was pleasantly surprized at it's "tossability", and the fact it was reasonably quick. Add the supercharger that's part of the SS package (goes beyond simply putting a couple of SS stickers), and the car becomes a monster the way the Grand Prix GTP is. With a pully swap & a chip, those guys are getting some amazing numbers for an otherwise stock front driver.

I'll agree with you here. I think the SSR is a fantastic but relatively useless weekend toy. I think Chevy should have simply incorperated the design on their new midsize trucks (instead of the angry toaster look), and forget about folding tops and Corvette-like price tags.

Have you actually sat in the new Colbalt? Have you actually even checked the new Colbalt? Even your statement about it not lasting 60,000 miles is completly based on biased thinking on your part. A puny car? It a sub-compact for godsakes! Every car on the street isn't going to be like every other. You even downplay it's power (a "go-fast" engine?).

QUALITY NAMEPLATE??!!
I feel you should look up what Chevrolet Malibu's history actually is. It's history is of rental cars, base models, and those really stellar midsize cars of the late 70s and early 80s.

Aveos start at $11,245.
If you can come up with a better car for the money, name it.


[quote]If you want to talk about Pontiac... I give credit to the GTO and Grand Prix, but all others are F'UGLY. Oldsmobile is dead, Buick is a wasteland, Cadillac is pretty good, but also overpriced. At least GM has some good trucks.[quote]

I'll agree Pontiac has screwed up the Sunfire's front end almost beyond repair, but you like the Grand Prix but not the Bonneville or the G6?
Good news is Buick's very popular. The bad news is that Buick's customer base will probally die out within a decade, and Buick's scrambling to broaden it's appeal.

Rattle-buckets? "Fix-Or-Repair-Daily"? I owned a 1985 Ford Mustang 5.0 coupe that I sold in 1997 at 220,000 miles. The most trouble free car I ever owned (doubt I spent over $4000 in unscheduled repairs over the 10 years I had the car).
I also own a solid 205,000 mile Thunderbird SC, and a second SC with 151,000 miles. Taurus SHOs (the V6, not the V8s) are bulletproof.

As for resale values, Compare same year Taurus and FWD Impalas or same year same level Mustangs and Camaros.

Ford's screwed up royally on new introductions, I wouldn't trust any mid-90s Ford 3.8 V6s that hasn't had their head gaskets or cooling fan bearings replaced, and their customer care in the late 90s went into the toilet. But overall, Ford makes some very decent cars.

 

Great post...

Not to mention that people often forget about incentives when naming the prices of these cars. You can EASILY find a base Aveo for $9K brand new.

 

Here's the original post regarding that unnamed clinic.
0603 clinic thread

I too can confirm that the car clinic'd higher than any other GM car.

I have been invited to 3 other clinics since then that may or may not have been 5th gen related. These clinics, like the GONGOS clinic, also appeared to target Camaro owners. Unfortunately, I couldn't make it to any those. The most recent one was/is being held at the Anaheim Convention Center (11/17/04 to 11/21/04) and is being run by Assistance In Marketing.

 

Actually, Aveos start at 9,995 according to GM site. Having said that, I will step up to the challange and name Echo. While none of these econo cars have great styling, I feel that Echo is quite a bit above Aveo/Wave. Echo actually reminds me a lot of European Renault. Echo is a little pricier, starting at about 10,895.

Canadian prices as listed on manufacturer sites:

Aveo/Wave: from 13,595
Echo: 14,080

So the difference is about $500. If I were unaware of rebates, and if I were in the market for such econoboxes, Toyota would be my only stop. Known reputation for reliability, quality, and fuel economy.

 

thanks for the response GuionM. i had no idea how current the info was. and for those that tell me not to question the credentials of the source. why not? jason wouldn't spend time to write an article and put it on the front page of the site if the info was that sensitive.