And that's exactly how I feel, PacerX's well-stated points notwithstanding. I know where the $20-30K extra goes, and it goes into areas that just don't make me want to whip out the ol' checkbook because, in the end, it's a depreciating asset. And that's why I find no reason - absolutely none - to ridicule someone for picking a 300C over the STS. To me, value is all about finding that knee on the curve of the plot of price vs. function, and that point on the graph typically occurs somewhere way south of $60K (and yet somewhere north of most compact cars).

Now, if I were looking for a sedan in that price range, would I consider the Caddy? Damn straight - and I'm not sure I'd even shop the German makes. But that's a decision straight out of the "what if?" file, considering that building a new garage/workshop is somewhat more important to me right now than getting Keyless Go and good panel fits. Kudos to Caddy for building such a machine, though, since crafting vehicles that are out of the reach of common men is exactly the purpose of such a nameplate.

 

How about magnetic ride control, Intellibeam headlights, remote start/keyless access, automatic load leveling, ventilated seats, heated rear seats, rear power outlets, heated steering wheel, memory passenger seat, heads up display, DVD player, oh, and Onstar too. So there is a lot more than you think. Maybe you could at least look and do a little homework before you start running off at the mouth like you do here so often?

Until you ride in a NEW Cadillac or two, you don't have jack to back up your mouth except for what you hear everyone else saying. Hell, you didn't know that there was anything that the Caddy offered that you couldn't get on a 300C, so how can you say that they are dramatically overpriced if you don't even know what kind of options are on the cars?



Honestly man, once in a while I'll agree with you, but you are WAY off base here.

I think you're talking out your *** because your mouth knows better.

Sigma is a partially failed, low-volume stand alone platform project? Please man, lay the crack pipe down and slowly step away. How does the Sigma platform which underpins the CTS, STS and SRX constitute a partially failed LOW VOLUME project?

Hmmmm. How about you come back with some facts to back this up before you lose what remaining credibilty you have here?

 

Which makes sense as a purely personal monetary choice. Remember, I bought a Camaro for the same reasons... I didn't want to take the lifestyle hit required if I bought a Corvette. BUT that does not then mean that the Corvette is not worth the extra money.

See above. An entirely reasonable personal choice.

Nobody is ridiculing a prospective 300C buyer, but I am stating that in any way reasonably measurable with the frame of reference associated with a top-flight luxury sedan, the Cadillac just lays waste to the 300C... If the SRT-8 or 300C outpowers and performs it in a straight line or handling, I can live with that. I wouldn't lay my money down on that car for the reason of those performance parameters. If performance is the only criteria, GM has many other choices for far less money that can handle that.

From the article I read, the CTS-V beat up the SRT-8 pretty good performance-wise even though it gave up 25hp or so to it, so there's the immediate option... and it's still a Cadillac.




Oh... one more thing to consider...

The plant the Cadillac is built in is considered by both JD Powers and Harbour as the #1 vehicle assembly plant in North America.

 

Pacer, your points are well-taken, but there's one BIG fly in the ointment:

Among the marketing-brainwashed masses, Cadillac is NOT thought of as top-flight luxury in the same realm as Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus. Most people still won't cross-shop those brands with Cadillac. And when they see Cadillacs with BMW-esque stickers, they'll think, "What are they smoking?" and exit the dealer at roughly light speed.

Chrysler's pricing is bringing in buyers. They can't ignore it. It's simply TOO low, TOO shocking. If Cadillac wants to gain market share, they'd be wise to adopt a similar strategy.

 

I'll agree that the brainwashed masses don't get it yet, but I'll take issue with the idea that people are being shocked by the prices. Cadillacs are selling and selling well.

Cadillac SHOULD NOT drop it's prices. The name and desired place in the market demand the pricing.

 

I think Caddy's more-or-less happy where they are right now in terms of market share. GM has plenty of other brands to scoop up the buyers in the sub-30k market so there's no need to cheapen the brand to extend its reach. Unlike, say, BMW or Merc. Don't forget, Cadillac still has the largest market share of all luxury vehicle makers when considering vehicles priced as luxury cars (not $25,000 BMWs or $20,000 Acuras).

I will agree that Caddy is not quite in the same league as BMW and Mercedes as far as perception goes, but that gap is closing with Caddy's reputation increasing and the Germans' diminishing. But Chrysler is way below Cadillac. They're not really direct competitors at all.

 

Count me as another who doesn't see a need for Cadillac to lower prices. It has been stated by GM's brass they have no interest in aggressively challenging Lexus for the top spot in luxury sales. The roughly $30,000 base CTS is as low as they'll go, and since perception can work both ways (cheap "luxury" cars are an oxymoron) , it is the right decision.

As far as comparing Cadillac to Chrysler as a whole....Chrysler still sells those little PT Cruisers and Sebrings, right? Get real....

 

I understand that pricing perception works both ways, but Cadillac needs to think of its current position as "re-entering the top-notch luxury market", not "already there."

When Lexus was entering the luxury market, they offered retail prices that were substantially lower than Mercedes. People had to pay attention to them. The result? They built a successful brand, and their retail prices have risen accordingly.

Chrysler knew that people would laugh at the 300c at 40-50k, so they underpriced it. The result? You get people cross-shopping them with a broad range of cars, just because they can't ignore it. How many are they going to sell this year?

You should have seen the look of panic on the Cadillac dealer's face when we mentioned the 300. They know it's a good car. Maybe not top-notch, but good enough and cheap enough many people don't care.

If Cadillac wants to take back share lost to other marques, they need to be able to offer a compelling pricetag. Especially here on the left coast, where BMW 5-series sales seem to be running about 10X the STS rate.

I want Cadillac to succeed--I'd be VERY happy if every 5-series/LS430/E-class buyer ended up in an STS.

Just pointing out some financial realities that might be needed to get there.

 

You state they have no interest in chasing Lexus to the top sales spot, and then immediately follow with "30k base is as low as they'll go". Lexus doesn't really go any lower. Their ES330 starts at 32,500 or so, and the IS300 starts at just a hair under 30. The new IS250 is rumored to be starting a tad under 30 as well, but nobody knows if it's going to be 100 dollars below or 2000 dollars below. But regardless, that's their cheapest model to date.

GM doesn't need to drop the price of their lowest priced car to compete. They need to drop the price of their higher priced cars to compete. Once they build up enough SALES momentum and enough word of mouth that "Caddies are better these days" then when they raise their prices, people might actually cross-shop them to see what Caddy is so proud of these days.

As stated, Lexus, when unproven, had unheard of low prices on all of its models. Their prices have increased dramatically since then; then again so have all car prices, but even relatively speaking, Lexus is now charging a nominal fee for their cars because they can. Caddy can't, at least for now.

 

Wait a second...

Am I wrong or didn't Cadillac take the top sales spot last year?

 

Thanks for reciting an entire list of completely useless and complex features that might cause maintainence nightmares down the road.

Of course, OnStar is more than useless - it's a potential invasion of privacy.






How many times can I say. I'm unimpressed by any of overpriced Sigma-based Cadillacs, but I'm very well aware of the long and loathsome option lists. I haven't driven the STS, but there's very little reason to do so. The STS is only slightly large, and very slightly improved CTS. The two cars are even hard to tell apart on the dealer's lot.





The Sigma platform was supposed to be the basis for what became the Cadillac XLR. It was also supposed to underpin the upcoming Holden Commodore. Sadly, Sigma was too inflexible and expensive.

Currently, Sigma is the basis of three look-alike Cadillacs - the CTS, STS and SRX. It was supposed to be the basis of so much more. If that isn't a partially failed platform project, I don't know what is?

 

If automatically calling the police in the event of an airbag deployment and then giving them the precise location of the car that had the accident is an invasion of privacy, SIGN ME UP.

 

If you're talking overall brand sales, then no they were third or fourth. However as I noted above, if you're talking sales of luxury-priced cars, then they were #1 by a long shot, and have been for quite a while.

 

Well then I agree with you, if it ain't broke...

 

Source? Lexus has been #1 in North American luxury brand sales for years now and never stopped to my knowledge. In fact Lexus' North American sales are actually a bit higher than Caddilac's international sales totals IIRC.