Ok let me exaggerate on my “NO!”.

The Z28 and SS will most likely get the same size motor like the 4th gen. From what I understand there will be only be enough funds to do two size motors for the 5th gen at first. A V6 and a V8. So I guess this kill my RS idea, but that’s ok. With the base car, SS and Z28 marketed right it should be ok.

Furthermore I think they should be able to do LS1 and LS6 in the Camaro just like they vette. And again I think we should look at he Z28 as the higher performer. Not necessarily always the more desirable car for ever one just serving a different purpose.

Just like the Silverado SS, It has functionality. The SS Camaro should be the V8 camaro you can get any option on, almost the luxury version. The Z28 should be uncompromising performance. Built to race. The SS built to look cool and go fast.

The Z28 should have the LS6 with more hp than the LS1 SS. We should stop looking at each model as which one is the "top" camaro because each should serve a different purpose. Once again I think you guys who still think the SS is the top car should consider the vette line up.

The Z06 is the top performing car. THE "Z" CAR IS THE PERFORMANCE VERSION. I still think if we have an SS camaro as the top performance version it could confuse buyers. Top optioned car, top in comfort, top in style in a sense, not top in ***** to the wall performance!

BTW I wouldn’t mind seeing the RS in a V6 version. Think about the V6 mustang “pony” version. Looks cool but still cost less because of a V6. For the people who don’t care about performance or cant afford it, but still want style. At the same time I don’t want it to copy the style of the SS or Z28. If they do an RS like I’m describing here It should have its own look.

I really want to see every model in the 5th gens line up have its own style and personality. I’m really getting into this discussion of how the line up should be and where each name should fall. If I get some more time maybe Ill type up some specifics for what I’d like to see in ’07.

 

I'm all for a manual transmission on a little traveled country road, but the real world is different. Catch a redlight at a series of uphill stops in San Franciso, or get stuck in the rush-hour traffic around D.C.-Baltimore and you'd be begging for an automatic.

If the LS-1 F-bodies proved anything, its that automatics don't have to sacrifice any performance. More importantly for the future, modern chassis electronics even take the risk out of driving a slushbox flat out in corners.

To me, a straight up manual transmission is an anachronism. Even F1 cars haven't used a conventional shifter in years. In the GM context, where buying a 6-speed Corvette actually costs you $800 extra, a manual transmission is a stupid buy. More important, with asbestos gone, modern clutch facing aren't very tough anymore. Overall, a manual will cost more over the life of a car, and you'll still be stuck rowing the shifter.

That said, the C5 Z06 could never have been an automatic car because it had too much torque. However, with the availability of high-torque-capacity automatics expanding, there is no reason why any expensive 400+hp car should have an old fashioned manual. If there isn't a suitable torque converter for the task, why can't we at least have a paddle-shift SMG?

 

Ok in my line up the Z28 only has a 6 speed. If you don’t want a performance oriented car buy the SS for the comfort and the auto.

Agreed, but buy the SS.

Do you actually see the Camaro getting a paddle shifter? My line up makes the most sense. Do you have something wrong with manuals? Old fashion? I think they are fun. I have nothing against autos, they just aren’t my thing.

I can see why you would want every model to have an auto for sales. But in my mind I don’t want the Z28 to be the high volume car. The Z06 isn’t getting hurt in sales for what it is, I don’t think the next Z28 should be any different.

 

Originally posted by redzed
I'm all for a manual transmission on a little traveled country road, but the real world is different. Catch a redlight at a series of uphill stops in San Franciso, or get stuck in the rush-hour traffic around D.C.-Baltimore and you'd be begging for an automatic.

I'm from there. I know what its like. I still prefer a Manual. It's hardly any worse in traffic unless you want to talk on the phone or eat (verboten in my car). Mostly, it seems like the guys who drive automatics are the ones who bitch about manuals in traffic.

In regards to all the other technology that can shift for me - all it does is dilute the experience of driving . People still use sailboats when powerboats are faster. Why? To experience more, to do more - to get more out of it. If you really, truly liked driving, wouldn't you want more of it? Wouldn't you want to be more in control? Shouldn't a car that promises driving nirvana at least offer this element of control?

When they come out with robotic steering coupled with adaptive speed control, will you still want to drive?

I will. I like driving. I like shifting. I like turning. I like braking. Hell, I like coasting at 3600 RPM just because it sounds cool. I like being able to make butter smooth shifts imperceptible to my passenger or nail second and kick the rear out a bit depending on my mood. An anacronism? Perhaps, but I love every bit of it.

 

I think my arguement swings the other way. There is a very convincing place in the market for an "understated" performance car. If you haven't notice, the current AMG Mercedes aren't "Miami-Vice" era pimpmobiles anymore. While I think performance should always be denoted in some way, subtle badging and visuals always have the most "expensive-looking" and classy effect. "Rainbow" shaped spoiler aside, the Camaro SS was undeniably understated.

On the other hand, a juiced up Pony is okay with me. If anywhere, big decals, fake scoops and spoilers belong on the cheapest cars in a model-range. Similarly, Chevy made the right move by keeping the tacky and expensive "appearance package" off the SS.

 

Not really.

Like I said I think Chevy is using "SS" today as it used "Z##" the last decade and a half. Was Z24, Z26, or (especially, because of the direct comaprison) Z34 used in any different way that SS is used today and presumably the near future?

Also, I'd love to know how the 3rd genners can be against a Camaro SS being above Z28, but have absolutely nothing against the IROC-Z designation which is the exact same thing to the 3rd Gen that the SS was to the 4th Gen!

 

My guess would be that the 5th gets the following engines:
base: 3.9L 60° V6 230HP
Z28: 6.0L LS2 V8 375HP
SS: 6.0L LS2 V8 390HP

if there is a midrange engine (which there needs to be since the gap between the base and Z is huge) I think it would be better to have a S/C V6

Lets say the mid engine would be either a 300HP 4.8L V8 or a 300HP supercharged 3800, 60° 3.5L or 3.9L.

current Z28 and SS owners and V8 fans will most likly go with the 6.0L Z28 or SS, why would any of us want the 6.0L over a 4.8 or 5.3????? the bigger V8 would probably cost only $1000 more.

No the supercharged or turbo V6 would offer that same level of performance but draw in a new crowd of buyers. I see it pulling in more "tuner" people. Plus it would help target the people that are affraid of a V8, many people still think that V8 = sky high insurance and terrible gas milage. I told one of my friends recently that I just got a Camaro SS with a 5.7L V8 and he said "whats that get like 15mpg?" he was shock when I told him it got 19 city 28 hwy. There is still a large ignorant group of people out there.

 

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Believe me, I had a huge problem with the Camaro's top package being named after a silly, made for TV race series back then. So to say "I have absolutely nothing against the IROC-Z designation" is not true.

 

The SS has ALWAYS gotten the higher HP. Always. That won't change, especially with GM's new horrible SS program.

The Z/28 was originally the lighter, higher strung motor. I'm all for making the Z/28 the new 1LE. Hell, give us the option of no rear seat.

And to be honest, I think the Z should come as a hardtop coupe only, with SFCs (if indeed it is still a unibody), live rear axle, a radio delete option (hell, they should all come with this) and make A/C optional, not standard.

It should be the true street/strip/autocross car it was always MEANT to be.

 

No the SS has not always had higher HP. TQ yes, HP no. While the Z28 also had better handling, better braking, cooler looks, oh it just goes on. No1 that knows what really knows what went on back then goes by what the Z28 and some other cars were "rated" at. The Z28 option costed more too.

And DXed, yes the IROC-Z was almost the same thing as what the SS is now. But it was a new designation which commerated the Camaro Z28 being used as the car of choice of the IROC races that still acknowledged that the car was an IROC-Z28, a better, upgraded Z28. It did not take a name from way back that meant something completely different and all of a sudden become an option to make the Z28 look like a mid-range nothing compared to the IROC-Z, like what the SS did to the Z28. It was like there were 2 top models, a Z28 or an upgraded Z28. Then it just made sense to keep the better upgraded Z28 only in 88-90. The problem is using the SS name and not giving the Z28 the recognition it deserves.

 

I'm with you....except for the live rear axle part.

 

Only 71 and 72 had lower HP numbers for the SS versus the Z/28, and even then it was only about 15 hp.

The live axle is cheaper, and easier to replace.

 

Here, Here!!

 

You neglect that the 1st Gen 302 Z28 at high RPM (around 7,000) put out more HP than any SS. It made about 400 or more HP and its pull was likened to a 426 HEMI. Z28's took out SS's and other big blocks. It's history makes it the Camaro that should always be top.

 

Horsepower was listed at 290 at 5800 rpm nominal. It's important to keep that word nominal in mind, because it means the 290 figure was just something somebody plugged into Chevy's spec sheets. It might just as well have been 300 or 350 or 400 bhp. Most, if not all, Z-28 302's put out more than 290 bhp and 290 foot-pounds of torque at 4200 rpm.

Actual horsepower depended a lot on which intake and exhaust manifolds you chose, which carburetor(s), and what internal modifications you pursued. No actual dyno figures were ever released by Chevrolet for the 302-cid Z-28 engine, but the auto magazines didn't hesitate to speculate. Their estimates ranged from a realistic 350 bhp in ROAD & TRACK to 370-plus in SPORTS CAR GRAPHIC to 400 bhp in CAR LIFE. All-out, blueprinted racing versions, like those built by Traco and Yunick, probably delivered in the neighborhood of 450 bhp, which took some heavy tinkering to pull from 302 cid and still expect reliability.

from Chapter 6 of Michael Lamm's "The Great Camaro"; and also from Chapter 14 of John Hooper's "The 1967-1968 Camaro Reference Book".