Best post so far.

 

Are you sure there are still bones? I mean this topic has been hammered since I started coming here way over a year ago.

To be honest I’ve always stayed away from this debate. I never known enough details in the SS and Z28’s history to take part. But I do agree that the 4th gen kind of messed the order up. I like how the Vette has it with the Z06 as the top model. But at the same time I think the SS need to be represented. While I know I’m dreaming, my dream line up for the 5th gen looks like this.

Base- v6 , we know what it should be.
RS- Small V8 (4.8L LS1?), I’m thinking something like the Mustang GT.
SS- 5.7 LS1, Tons of options, go fast in style.
Z28- 6.0 LS1, Like the Z06, just a straight up street racer, hard top only, 6-speed only, bare bones all motor and fun!

I know this is all been said before, but you guys get the idea. Who knows maybe a GM executive will reads this and like it.

 

ah another z28 vs SS thread ..


Well my 2 cents coming from a driveway with 2 SS's 1 lt1 Z, and a 86 Iroc . I think there should be room for both in a 5th gen line , but the SS should be the top model all the power and all the comforts , Z28 should be a sub model of the ss as ss are made from Z28 to start with .


well i expect the flames from the z/28 crowd but , to each thier own

 

Yeah but by the way things are going with the SS name recently you know its going to go onto the Camaro again. I agree with you. I wish they would do it just like the Vette. But if they have to Slap SS on the side I think they should do it like my line up. The SS is not the top performer but the top optioned car. The "look cool, go-fast in comfort" Camaro. I don’t to see the Z28 with automatics, convertibles and power everything in the 5th gen. It should be option limited. The SS Camaro should fill those shoes not the Z28.

 

Who's bashing? I see SS upgrades as an integral part of the Chevy line up.

The original question remains.
Applying the SS badge to pedestrian Chevs in order to spice them up makes sense.What about Camaro though? It ought to be (in a perfect world) pretty spicy even in base form.

Will the SS formula that Chevy is applying across the board (except on Corvette) really work on the next Camaro? Maybe, if the base model is so mundane no one wants it, and Z/28 is stripped of all it's traditional good bits.... will people be willing to belly up the cost for a Camaro SS.

I don't see how such a plan could be good for Camaro, (unless you're Ford).

 

Ok I’m just throwing ideas out. How many models of Camaro do we need? Its agreed we need a base model V6. But after that how many V8 models do we need?

Would everyone be happy here if we just had a V6 and a Z28? Or what if we just had an SS? Some want a mid level V8. Is this really needed?

There has to be a happy medium. We need a base model, a mid level performer for those who want more but not too much and a top performer. Or do we?

I think we need to focus on the future of these models and not what they were in the past. I think another side to the success of the 5th gen is how the non enthusiast see the different models. Most of these people are going to see the SS as the top model.

Would you guys rather see the Z28 dropped from the line up and replaced with the RS instead of it continuing to be the mid level model? I’m just ranting out some random ideas, what do you guys think.

 

Manufacturer Ratings
1967 (SS)
Z/28 302-290hp (8cyl-4V)
SS 327-210hp (8cyl-2V)
327-275hp (8cyl-4V)
350-295hp (8cyl-4V)
396-325hp (8cyl-4V)
396-375hp (8cyl-4V)*
1968 (SS)
Z/28 302-290hp (8cyl-4V)
SS 350-295hp (8cyl-4V)
396-325hp (8cyl-4V)
396-350hp (8cyl-4V)
396-375hp (8cyl-4V)*
1969 (SS)
Z/28 302-290hp (8cyl-4V)
SS 350-300hp (8cyl-4V)
396-325hp (8cyl-4V)
396-350hp (8cyl-4V)
396-375hp (8cyl-4V)*
1970 (SS)
Z/28 350-360hp (8cyl-4V)
SS 350-300hp (8cyl-4V)
396-350hp (8cyl-4V)
396-375hp (8cyl-4V)*
1971 (Z/28)
Z/28 350-330hp (8cyl-4V)*
SS 350-270hp (8cyl-4V)
402-300hp (8cyl-4V)
1972 (Z/28)
Z/28 350-255hp (8cyl-4V)*
SS 350-200hp (8cyl-2V)
402-240hp (8cyl-4V)
1973
Z/28 350-245hp (8cyl-4V)
SS N/A
1974
Z/28 350-245hp (8cyl-4V)
SS N/A
1975
Z/28 N/A
SS N/A
1976
Z/28 N/A
SS N/A
1977
Z/28 N/A
SS N/A
1978
Z28 350-185hp (8cyl-4V)
SS N/A
1979
Z28 350-175hp (8cyl-4V)
SS N/A
1980
Z28 350-190hp
SS N/A
1981
Z28 350-175hp
SS N/A
1982
Z28 5.0L (305CI) -165hp(CFFI)
SS N/A
1983
Z28 5.0L - 190hp(4bbl H.O.)
SS N/A
1984
Z28 5.0L - 190hp(4bbl H.O.)
SS N/A
1985
Z28 5.0L - 215HP(TPI)
IROC-Z 5.0L - 215HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1986
Z28 5.0L - 190HP(TPI)
IROC-Z 5.7L - 220HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1987
Z28 5.0L - 215HP(TPI)
IROC-Z 5.7L - 225HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1988
Z28 N/A
IROC-Z 5.7L - 230HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1989
Z28 N/A
IROC-Z 5.7L - 240HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1990
Z28 N/A
IROC-Z 5.7L - 245HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1991
Z28 5.7L - 245HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1992
Z28 5.7L - 245HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1993
Z28 5.7L - 275hp(LT1)
SS N/A
1994
Z28 5.7L - 275hp(LT1)
SS N/A
1995
Z28 5.7L - 285hp(LT1 CA A4)
SS N/A
1996 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)
Z28ÊÊA4, M6 LT1ÊV8 10.5:1 5.7L (350) 275@5200 325@2400 MFI 2.73 3.23 3.42 -----
SSÊÊÊA4, M6Ê LT1 V8Ê10.5:1 5.7L (350) 305*@5200 335@2400ÊMFI 3.23 ----3.42 -----
*(315 w/optional exhaust)
1997 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)
Z28ÊÊA4, M6 LT1ÊV8Ê10.5:1Ê5.7L (350) 285@5200 325@2400 MFI 2.73 3.23 3.42 ---
SSÊÊÊA4, M6ÊLT1ÊV8 10.5:1 5.7L (350)Ê305*@5200 335@2400 MFI 3.23 -----3.42 ---
*(315 w/optional exhaust)
1998 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)ÊÊ
Z28ÊA4, M6 LS1 V8 10.1:1 5.7L (346)Ê305@5200 335@2400 MFI 2.73 3.23 3.42 ---
SSÊÊ A4, M6 LS1 V8 10.1:1 5.7L (346) 320*@5200Ê345@2400 MFI 3.23 -----3.42 ---
*(327 w/optional exhaust)
1999 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)Ê
Z28ÊA4, M6 LS1 V8 10.1:1Ê5.7L (346) 305@5200 335@2400 MFI 2.73 3.23 3.42 ---
SSÊÊ A4, M6 LS1 V8 10.1:1 5.7L (346) 320*@5200 345@2400ÊMFIÊ3.23 -----3.42 ---
*(327 w/optional exhaust)
2000 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)Ê
Z28Ê A4, M6 LS1 V8 10.1:1 5.7L (346) 305@5200 335@2400ÊMFI 2.73 3.23 3.42 ---
SSÊÊ A4, M6 LS1 V8Ê10.1:1 5.7L (346) 320*@5200Ê345@2400 MFI 3.23 -----3.42 ---
*(327 w/optional exhaust)
2001 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)Ê
Z28Ê A4, M6 LS1ÊV8 10.1:1 5.7L (346) 310@5200 340@4000 MFIÊ2.73 3.23 3.42 ----
SSÊÊ A4, M6 LS1 V8 10.1:1 5.7L (346) 325*@5200 350@4000 MFI 3.23 -----3.42 ---
*(335 w/optional exhaust)
2002 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)Ê
Z28Ê A4, M6ÊLS1 V8 10.1:1 5.7L (346) 310@5200 340@4000 MFI 2.73 3.23 3.42 ---
SSÊÊ A4, M6 LS1ÊV8Ê10.1:1Ê5.7L (346) 325*@5200Ê350@4000 MFI 3.23 -----3.42 ---
*(345 w/optional exhaust and intake lid)


11-2 by my count in favor of SS

 

can you repost 96 -up on my pc it is all garbled..thanks

 

Here's some more fuel to the fire....

In the article about the Malibu Max SS one of the GM execs said that SS was traditionaly a family car with more power and performance.

Personally, I'd go for Z/28 road racer with the SS getting the luxury muscle treatment. If that was the case, I'm sure you'd see more SS on the road than Z/28.


It's official now....this is the topic that will never die.

 

SS stands for Super Sport. I think its a bit late to ask whether or not the SS moniker is good for the camaro..its been around since the late sixties when the Camaro was originally introduced!!!!!

Its a tradition!!!

 

And I agree with you, as a matter of fact, I'd like to see that lineup almost exactly the way you posted. I've been posting something similar for a while also.

danno02SS, I don't understand your manufacturer ratings post. The Z28 was the top Camaro more years than the SS and the 1st Gen Z28's HP was rated lower than the SS when it really had MORE HP, (while also handling better, braking better, introducing racing stripes to the Camaro and cowl hoods, and also being the more expensive option) and you claim the SS "wins" LOL?? DON'T think so!! There is so much you and others don't know about the Z28 and its history. I ask you which Camaro won the championships, became a legend, got called "The Ultimate Camaro," and "The closest thing to a Corvette yet??" I sure hope you know which Camaro it was, because I definetly know which it wasn't.

 

1. Do we really know what a base V6 should be? There's a choice between another 200hp pushrod slug and a pricier DOHC 250hp car that would actually be competitive. Choose the most affordable and you're back to where the V6 F4 left off. Picking the 24-valve option would make for a more expensive base model, and define the packaging of the car in a negative way.

2. Another underpowered Camaro RS idea - bring back a weak V8 option, just like back in good old 1989. This cheap insurance, cheap engine nonsense is wearing thin.

3. Demoting the SS to the role of a loaded, "disco cruiser" is another example of 1980s thinking. Does anybody want a high visual effect, but lower performance Camaro wearing the SS badge? Considering that the SS was the success story in the long decline of the F-body, marketing realities should be placed ahead of nostalgia.

4. Making the Z28 a Camaro "Z06" is a rotten idea as well. The Z06 is a great car, but making the least desirable body style the exclusive performance leader is just plain stupid. Better yet, why would an automatic transmission option make any vehicle less of a performance car?

 

I think that I might. The base V6 for a Camaro should be an engine with a soul. Maybe a 24V V6 might be deemed too expensive and too hard to package....fair enough. But a cam in block design can also be inspiring and not mearly chosen because it's the cheapest prime mover available.

My bet would be on the upcoming 3.9L HV V6. Give me a smooth revving 220-250HP base motor, a chassis with great dynamics, and sheetmetal /proportions with gorgeous looks and you've got the recipe for an exciting and very desirable entry level base model.

 

Bottom line for me personally? I buy a 5th Gen if it looks great, has great performance and it is priced right. Give me bang for the buck baby. I'm not going to lose sleep over something so superficial as which badge belongs on which car.

 

Ummm, not that I was there, but Disco was the '70's dude. 80's were the power-ballad/BigHair Band days!

Anyways, as for your question about anybody wanting "a high visual effect, but lower performance Camaro...", I've got an absolutely positive and emphatic YES for you. I don't think SS belongs on a V6, but I can site numerous models with "peppy appearance packages" laid over the same lame drivetrain game. The most recent and closest situation to the Camaro would be the Mustang's "Pony Edition" which we have discussed in other forums.

There were sufficient special orders and dealer requests for V6 cars equipped with GT hoodscoops, GT rims, fog lamps, rear spoilers, etc. that Ford decided to make it an appearance package. The Pony Edition is a basic V6 car in every way, with the outside look of a GT (in every way). The only ways to tell a Pony V6 from a real GT is to look for dual exhausts on the GT, and the "pony-in-motion" graphics on the doors of the Pony edition.

I feel that there is a very lucrative market for such a car, whether is a girl thing, teen thing, economic thing, or just the person's individual taste... some people simply DON'T WANT A V8, but they do want the muscular look. And as we well know, V6's constitute the majority of Mustang sales, and was also a big percentage of F-car sales too. I see far more V6 Camaros on a daily basis than I do SS's or Z28's. To neglect these buyers in any way (i.e. not offer them the cars/parts they are willing to pay for) would be foolish IMO, especially when the parts (scoops, spoilers, stripes, seats, interior appointments, etc) are already designed, tooled, and available.