^like ZR1 and Z06? unintentional names?

 

I dont understand the question. Was that directed at me?

 

Probably no different from using Shelby (see above in my case) but for those guys old enough to know I think using the ZL1 moniker might do the trick without stepping on the Z/28 mystique. IMO the ZL1 was the ***** to the wall Camaro in much the same way the Boss 429 was to Mustang and again IMO entirely appropriate for an S/C'd V8 F5 that might incidently put on a coupla hundred pounds in an effort to harness 550-600hp.

Z/28 on the other hand carries considerable baggage and is obviously a sticky topic when it comes to what it needs to be and to be honest I'm firmly with the crowd that wants a "drivers car" as opposed to a "road car" - WeverTF that is???? Since some people feel the GT500 and Terminators are "road cars" as opposed the to the GT (especially a TP/GT) which to me is certianly a "road car", but I'm funny like that. A road car to me isn't one that gives you the impression that when the road starts getting all like a bowl of spaghetti your going to have muscle your car in an effort make it turn left or right.

Effortless power is nice (I did get a chance to putt around NW Pennslyvania and the high places in Maryland and Virginia) since I didn't need to downshift if I didn't want to going up some pretty steep grades, but to be honest my GT with the FR3 suspension (as close to the Track Pack as a pre '10 car can get) was more confidence inspiring.

That said... I haven't read any real bad reviews with the '10 GT500s handling (mines an '09) and in a year or so after I've built up some play money again, I plan on switching the stock suspension components out with the GT500 FR3 equivalent along with the same BFG KDW IIs (man I really wish Michelin would make a 255/45R18 and 285/40R18 PS2) I had on the GT and see how it goes????

 

Given that (according to Motor Trend), Ford managed to make a GT500 that was more fun to drive than a ZR1 Corvette or a BMW 135i, I think there's a lot that GM could do to the Camaro to make it a better handling car, especially on a track.

Why couldn't a car with those mods become a Z/28?

But before answering, I should probably ask what you mean by a "Real Z/28", Charlie. I'm presuming you mean sharper responses and more fun to drive around corners, perhaps sacrificing some ride comfort.

 

I dont think it is any different and I agree with you. Technically people have said what I mentioned which doesnt make sense to me. Think of it this way. Imagine building a car such as the GT500 or Boss but not naming it... was it really a model of car or just components thrown together to modify an existing car? That has been the arguement.

GM has a weird Beaurocratic history or naming or not naming, renaming models like that. COPO ZL1, Z/28 cheetah, panther

 

Okay, here's another question for you.

Do you think you'd be comfortable calling a car "Z/28" if it were not a car that you were comfortable calling "tossable"? (i.e., is that adjective mandatory?)

Oh really? How much less could you care? I gather that you care at least a little, and perhaps a lot.

I like the ZL1 suggestion.

 

We'll see guys. The 5th gen drives nice, but is pretty far removed from what I'd consider Z/28 material. The fact that the GT500's chassis revisions are getting good reviews is somewhat encouraging from the perspective of mass. But again, we'll see.

I've said it about a million times, benchmark the M3. It's seems only Ford agrees with me on that one. (ie., Mustang mule vs M3 at Gingerman)

 

Couldn't care less. The other way is a Chicagoism to in fact, emphasize how little you care.

But afew points.

Where exactly does GM think it's going with this car?

The GT500 could lose 100 pounds next year. An LSA Camaro would gain 200-300 pounds over the already overweight SS. Sounds like a formula which sets Camaro up for failure and embarrassment.

Plus more power isn't what Camaro needs. And more power isn't going to necessarily make Camaro that much faster.

There's a nationally known LSx speed shop afew miles from my house. These guys are good. They build some of the fastest LSx cars around. Anyhoo, they bought an SS to develop a line of performance parts for it. I was just talking to someone last week about their progress. From what I've been told, they've done EVERYTHING they can think of on this car. Blower, headers, etc. They simply cannot get this thing to run better than 12.1's. In the old days, they used to just look at an LS1 4th gen and get it to run that. They've hit a brick wall as far as gains related to power increases. They've now stopped trying to add power. Now the focus of the program has shifted to shedding weight. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with.

 

The money has been spent and development has been done to make a LSA Camaro. I'd like to see the car sold. To avoid "embarrassment" They could call it ZL1 and make it a limited run of 1000-2000 cars at $49,995. Then make the Z28 a 1LE/track package style car with a LS3 and some stuff done to trim weight.

 

Embarrassment when compared to a several hundred pound lighter, 540 hp, GT500. Camaro needs some wins here, not 'also rans'.

Plus, what of the CTS-V coupe? Figure that would start around $60-ish. But I guess Cadillac could truthfully say, ours handles better, has a gorgeous interior, and normal outward visibilty...

 

A LSA Camaro shouldn't be called a ZL1 unless it has an aluminum big-block.

(Please don't throw out the so called ZL1 4th gens as an example as GM did not produce them.)

Personally I'd rather see a true Z/28 get the hot cam version of the LS3 or the new Vette GenV racing block. However as those chances are slim and none, I honestly have no issue with the Z/28 getting a detuned version of the LS9. (Come on guys, LSA isn't the only choice.)

Boy talk about thread hi-jacks.

+1 "SS is awesome".

 

The car was developed at Nurburgring. We have been told here by the fanboy posse that it is unpossible to improve upon a car thusly developed.

You're on the right track, but I'd like to see matching tires up front. Smaller fronts only exacerbate understeer which is evidently an issue with this car. Sure you could compensate with stiffer rear springs / bars but then the car gets twitchy near the limit, especially over bumps. And before you bring up the Corvette's smaller front tires, it too is faster when matching, larger front tires are used.

No extra things to break and cause me aggravation please.

Power really isn't the problem with this car.

 

There are a lot of variables left out here. There are already 5th Gens in the 11's so I'm not sure what "brick wall" they are running into. I know the literal 3875 lb gorilla in the room is the curb weight but it's not as big of a factor on the drag strip as it is on a road course or daily driving. It's hard to say from your post how they have the 5th Gen set up and yes this one will take some more power but it starts with a lot more power than the 4th Gens had.
What we usually see from speed shops are cars tuned to make big hp on the dyno and show off their engine tuning skills but are also set up lowered with low profile tires and big wheels so the car will get noticed. That's not a prescription for an 11 sec slip even if the power is there.

 

Don't know the particulars beyond what I stated. Just curious, do you have a link to an 11 sec Camaro?

 

Yea here is the guy I was first thinking of.. from the "other" site. Apparently his is in the upper 10's now. He did it the right way as he started with suspension and traction setup then went to mods and eventually a power adder, n2o. Note his choice of skinny wheels and 4th Gen front brakes with 315 Drag radials out back.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39945