I"d rather have SLAs over struts up front, but if push came to shove, I'll accept struts to get IRS.

I never thought about the 4th gens SLA tooling. I'm thinking the only hurdle would be mounting points on the (Sigma) chassis. $$ to relocate. Plus I don't automatically cringe at struts anymore, Porshe, BMW, and Mercedes have utilized them in some of the finest suspensions in the world.

Another insider here has indicated we're presently headed toward a strut/IRS setup.

 

I'm not so sure...'Hemi' has been around for 40 odd years now, and I don't think it ever became a 'passing fancy'.

Now, I will concur that a bigger buzz word could crop up....marketing's way of keeping things fresh while putting off new product.

 

No point in arguing this anymore. If you want to cross shop those cars be my guest. They are diffrent animals and anyone can see that.

 

Yes, but they're different animals in the same price range with a similar purpose. In reality, the main reason they wouldn't compete is that many people still don't cross shop domestics and imports - they go for one or the other. Still, if you're someone looking to travel in a fast, sporty, and comfortable coupe with room for 4, you've got some limited choices. Our neighbor, who's an import guy (owned a 911, now drives a Mercedes), was telling me that if he were to buy a domestic, he would consider the GTO and CTS-V, but never the Mustang. His main concern, rather understandably, is resale. It does hurt when you own an expensive car for a year and see that a new Impala is now worth roughly the same as your car.

 

Guion, is that the same for the rest of the cars produce in Oshawa? (ie Monte Carlo). Also, unlike the Camaro, the W-body cars are selling well and really have no need to leave the current plant, but I think most of us would like to see them on RWD. You said that we wouldn't see a RWD GP or Impala built in the US, but what about the current location of Oshawa? It was slated for Zeta so why couldn't the plant be transformed to produce RWD cars?? Becides the fact that we don't really have a NA RWD chassie for them right now.

 

Hemi's have been around for more than 40 years, IIRC they date to the 40s, i know they were like 392ci at one point, might have even been a 36x ci version too, i'm not amopar nut so i don't recall. The original Hemi's are all but forgotten though because they came in such big boring and slow cars for the most part.

Fast forward to today, and why couldn't Hemi become worn out. With Hemis in 6000lb trucks that will get spanked all day long by the average V6 family car, it's only a matter of time before it loses it's luster as a bad *** engine. Same thing with the 300C and charger, the base cars are so damn heavy that they aen't nearly as fast as the hemi legend would seem to imply.

The 426 hemi got it's reputation because it was relatively rare, and wasabout as raw a street engine as you could get, and the cars it came in were as fast as anything on the road. Modern hemi's are not doing anything to maintain that reputation

 

Good point Ed. Same reason "SS" doesn't mean anything anymore and therefore the top Camaro shouldn't be an SS model.

 

I'll buy that logic.

 

This is an extremely ignorant post. First, the legendary hemis are not forgotten and the cars they came in were not slow. Do a search in google "hemi+nascar". They have cult status with car enthusiasts in this country. Also, trucks that get spanked????? The stock Ram 1500 can run a 14.9 1/4 and with some VERY simple mods run low 14's easily. Geeze!!!!

 

That explains all the commercials up here advertising "The #1 Automotive Plant".

So there is a possibility that the "heartbeat of America" will once again be built by Canucks.

 

1. It will work the same as with Ford. It will help them short term, but they better have plans to redo the entire car lineup drastically soon after.

2. Impala, Gran Prix, Park Ave, Monte Carlo, the dearth of coupes and convertibles....

3. You know, the G6 GTP coupe is actually very striking in person, and alleviates the heaviness of the design and the stretched wheelbase through its big wheels. The closest comparison would be the G35 coupe, with its fat shoulders, and you don't see Infiniti selling the G35 coupe with anything less than 17s. I think the GT G6 comes with 17s, but they're not even appropriate, it needs the GTP wheels to look really outstanding, and that's what I would call the G6 GTP coupe, outstanding. The roofline and character line that runs through the door handles are pure Toyota Celica, but overall the G6 is much better looking, imo, it just needs the big wheels. The G6 coupe will be a big hit.

4. Having seen the HHR in person already and seen it sit on a lot for about a week now I still am not convinced about it. Interestingly enough, it's on the same lot the GTP was on, but that sucker is gooone. The HHR is probably just not my style, and I don't see anything innovative about it. Not the styling, not the idea, not the execution of the idea. It's not anymore efficient than the four-year old PT, it just has a better engine, better dynamics, better materials, better design than a four-year old car. That's why it's nothing special to me, sure it's a lot better looking than the PT, but, eh, it's just not anything ingenious, and a new Zafira for Saturn would have been scores better. At least that thing has edge and sport to it, the HHR will appeal to zero young people, it's an homage, but not the right kind of homage, like a Mustang. Was the 49 Suburban coveted by young people when it came out? No, but the Mustang was. Because it was cool, the HHR is not.

7. I sure as hell think so. And how many of those 40k MCs they sell per year are rentals? I would be half at least. I don't know who would buy these outdated cars, they're just that outdated and obsolete, no where near modern design or thinking. It really boggles my mind that it still exists and is getting a refresh only to emphasize the tired design it is. It's a shame. Make a GTO with a V6 for about 24k, bare bones but with rims and a hot spoiler and watch it fly. Oh ya and bake that cutting edge style into it and watch it fly even more.

 

IMO, you just can't make a GTO with anything but a V8... it'd be like sticking a V6 in a Corvette to make a cheaper version.

If GTO was still a trim level rather than a seperate model (ie. Tempest -> GTO) , I could understand... but nothing wearing a GTO badge should ever have a V6 in it...

I don't think GTO is intended to be a Firebird replacement... which dropping a V6 in it for a cheaper version would imply that direction of thought.... and the car is selling above projections right now and will sell out with virtually no inscentives for the year on the 05 model... so I don't think there's a real issue as far as getting more volume out of GTO right now...

When the new GTO comes out... I wouldn't be opposed to a somewhat decontented version (cloth seats, etc etc...) to lower base price....


40k MC's? Do you live in Canada? If not, there is no $40k MC...

Also, I doubt many Monte Carlos sell to rental companies... few peopel would rent a large sized 2-door.... Impalas... yes.... MC's... no.

They are getting long in tooth, but they are very well built cars... and actually pretty feature-packed for the money.

 

You simply cannot compare the HHR to the Mustang. First of all, its unfair to the HHR (and the Mustang for that matter). Secondly your comparison as to the buyer each was/is marketed towards at its inception has changed dramatically in 40 years. The HHR is for the young couple just starting out, or the college graduate who needs a car for hauling around his friends and his surfboard, mountain bike, etc., or the retired couple that doesn't need the mass and size of the Tahoe/Suburban but wants the versitility of an SUV. You simply cannot compare a ponycar and a small SUV and say they are marketed towards the same groups. Similar groups may buy one or the other (or both), but not for the same reasons.

 

I was merely comparing the effectiveness of the design and the targeting of markets. I really don't think the HHR will do well with college graduates, instead many smaller families in their 30's and boomers will purchase it, a lot like the PT. But it certainly can prove me wrong. I think at its inception it *could* be considered somewhat of a styling wonder, and be a hit with some young people because of that, but overall I don't see this appealing to the same young crowd that digs cars like the Wrangler, Mustang, 3-series, etc etc. It's just not that "cool" of a car, imo, it would be cooler with color-coded interior inserts, for example, you know some individuality. This is all again, my opinion. I used the Mustang as an example of an homage that is playing well to young people, and the HHR is another homage, but imo it won't play well to young people. The Mustang plays well to all ages, it is ultiamtely a beautiful design (not more beautiful than the original) and is "cool" in everyone's eyes. The HHR is not, and so I think they will easily meet their sales expectations, but this won't be much of an image vehicle, like the Mustang is. Again, the comparison is merely a design analysis, I agree that the HHR is a utalitarian vehicle and thus aimed at a completely different set of buyers looking for different things, however, it is aimed at trying to please similar groups of buyers, i.e. young people.

 

No **** sherlock. They're not forgotten? Imagine that. I was wondering how i remembered them. Ask average people on the street when did the hemi first come out and i guarantee that 99 out of 100 think it was in the hemi-cuda or some other famous mopar.

And i'm supposed to be impressed by a 14 second ET out of such a LEGENDARY motor as the HEMI? Like i said, the average V6 sedan will suck the doors clean off that truck and while the 300C and charger aren't as pathetic, they're still going to barely walk an average V6 sedan.

That kind of (lack of) performance is only going to water down the legend. How many kids are going to be in awe of the hemi when their friends with SRT4s, cobalt SS's and other econo-box rockets can take one down with ease. The average hemi car is going to be stock it's entire life and is piloted by a non-gear head. This is a SHARP contrast to the 426 hemi cars, which as i already stated were relatively rare and faster then just about everything on the street.

One more time for the slow people, an analogy. A 1970 nova SS 350 is no match for a hemi-cuda, even with a couple light mods. OTOH. a stock 2005 cobalt SS or SRT4 will smoke the hemi trucks, and are as fast as the non SRT hemi cars. And dollar for dollar on mods, the lightweight FI cars will suck the doors off a base hemi car and get you into SRT8 range.