I think it would probably please me Also, the Camaro's weight should be kept as low as possible, I don't want a porker like the new Mustang.

 

No reason for the cabin to be cramped.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that all it takes is a snap of your fingers to package all of this stuff into a tidy exterior. It would take a substantial amount of engineering and design. But first and foremost it requires the will to do it. It requires the will to tear up a sedan based architecture enough to produce a ponycar.

Perhaps Ford's efforts in that regard were on the tepid side with the new Mustang. I hope........I really, really hope...GM seeks to raise the bar on this one, not simply mimic Ford's effort.

 

I actually think we agree more than we disagree on this. In the past you had suggested the SN95 Mustang is the perfect size for Camaro. This I agree with, however the cockpit is too small. (Ok maybe too small is harsh... however the front seats need to be set back farther so the thing is comfortable to drive.) Nor did I knock the 240SX as a great handling car. It was just that. However while everyone is quick to blast the 93-02 Camaro suspension as old technology, remember the 240SX first arrived in 1989... hense while more sports car like than the 4th gen Camaro, one certainly cannot say its a more modern technology, even if it is more "sporty". However the Camaro never was a sports car. It was originally a sports sedan and later a sports coupe. Yes, I agree the 4th gen is bit long in the front and although I love its wideness, it does feel bulky. I certainly don't want a reskinned 4th gen. Even though Mark Reuss confirmed that a V8 will fit in Kappa doesn't automatically make it the best option for a 5th gen Camaro. Even on a longer WB Kappa that was stretched into a 2+2, it is easy to see that a V8 might be too heavy and would destroy those sports car handling characteristics that everyone wants so badly.

I want GM to break the mold on the next Camaro. I don't want to see a bloated and stretched compact nor a bloated and tall sedan just because they already have an existing platform they can shoehorn a heritage style skin on. I want something that's going to kick Mustang's butt from here to Sunday, both on the street, in the 1/4 mi, and on the road course.

Yes, sports cars like the 240SX are cool. But if that's what you want, there are plenty of cars out there that already fit the mold. Don't go making the next Camaro into something it never was in the first place.

P.S. No hatch back! Make it a fastback with a usable trunk.

P.P.S. And the top dawg Camaro should be Z28.

 

The new mustang has a massive, fat, humongous, gigantic, enormous, gargantuan ***. For me, that, overall, makes the entire car look huge. There is nothing attractive to me about the new mustang, so keep the similarities to a minimum.

Let me see a modern third-gen(low, wide, angular, keep the pointy nose ), with an LS2. That's all. Too bad I know that won't happen.

Also, if they could get the handling perfect on a kappa-based camaro, I'd be all for it, too. IMO, the Solstice is too damn heavy for what it is supposed to be, anyway. The miata is getting there, too.

Camaro=cheap performance and badass styling. I see nothing about being massive and unnecessarily heavy.

In all reality, what I'm probably going to see is a tall, heavy(3200+lbs), retro, comfortable-for-the-masses camaro. And that's when I'm going to invest all of my money in an LS1-powered S13 Silvia and say to hell with GM.

 

The Camaro was NEVER a full size car...in any era.

 

?????!!!!!!
Camaro was NEVER a full-size car. Camaro was never even a MID-size car.
I fail to see how a high-powered rear-wheel drive performance coupe overlaps with a fwd economy car, even it they weighed about the same and even if said fwd econocar has an optional model with a few more horsies under the hood.
Again, how is a lighter-weight rear-wheel drive Camaro somehow a "Cobalt with an LSx engine"

Repeat after me: "Light is RIGHT"
"Light weight is improves EVERY aspect of performance"
"a lightweight rwd performance car is FUNDAMENTALLY NOT THE SAME THING as a lightweight fwd economy car" (not that the Cobalt is particularly light)

I've driven one. Didn't care for it AT ALL.
It's HUGELY space-inefficient. Big on the outside, small on the inside. Nissan made the same stupid decision with the 350Z, PURPOSELY making the interior small to make it *SEEM* more "sporty", and basically wound up with a 2-seat G35 luxury/sport sedan (minus some of the luxury). This is so wrong in so many ways... Contrast with a 240Z, which weighs 1000 lb. less! I can get 5 race wheels/tires, a medium-sized toolbox, floor jack, and a small suitcase ALL INSIDE my much-smaller 240Z! And the legroom and headroom are comparable, maybe greater. Now THAT'S space-efficiency.

I'm not against more room on the inside. I am against bigger, higher, more massive exterior proportions. And more than anything I'm AGAINST UNNECESSARY WEIGHT!

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that the new Camaro should basically be a 2+2 Solstice coupe with a V8.

But of course nobody listened when I told 'em that the new "Z" should be a shortened/lightened 2-seat 240SX with a 6...

 

Actually, until the late '80's early '90's, the Camaro was a compact relative to the other cars it shared the road and showroom with. And as I recall, they used to sell in large numbers back then as well.

 

Guy used to hit on this very subject before. I wanna think he said that at one time the 4th gen was near the widest and longest car offered by GM. Or within the top 3. Maybe he'll chime in on this.

 

Plenty? Name just ONE! Since the 240SX went away there has been NO replacement for it in the market.
So the Camaro should remain exactly what it was?! I think keeping the best aspects and improving/remedying the bad parts will be absolutely required.

To me, a wider 240SX, with LS-series engine, and sculpted but aggressive bodywork, weighing in at ~3000 lb. would be perfect.

No, I'm not expecting anything like that from GM

 

Let's not kid ourselves. The Corvette does not even weigh right at 3000 pounds. Certainly no Camaro ever would. I'm hoping the Camaro can weigh 3400 pounds or so in base V6 form. Just being a realist. With new crash standards coming it's going to be harder to engineer an ultra-light 4 passenger car like you're describing.

 

Yup.

In fact if it comes in anywhere near 3400, I'll be doing back flips.

 

My heart pitter-patters just thinking about that formula. But I agree, we're not going to see it.

 

You're right. There is no current "exact" replacement. Everything else is either real expensive or FWD/AWD. However if rumors of a Kappa coupe are true, there may soon be one. (With an Ecotech four of course.)

However, I'd give up all hope of GM ever building a budget priced 240SX sized V8 RWD coupe weighing in at ~3000#. They'd never let anything beat Corvette.

I'm not suggesting that what you're describing isn't an attractive formula. I at one time even thought about doing a V8 into a 240SX conversion myself. Heck there may even be a market for it and maybe the gearheads at GM can even justify it to the beancounters. However, all I am saying, is it should never be called "Camaro". It simply does not fit the image or heritage of the Camaro.

Based upon what I have read, those on the inside that are fighting for its rebirth, feel the same as I do about Camaro's heritage. If it does return, its going to look like a Camaro, its going feel like a Camaro, its going to be a CAMARO.

 

I am really starting to believe that some of you should not be in the market for a Camaro anymore, or need to recall what the car is. If you want these tiny cars I think it's time to go elsewhere. Camaro's have been 185.5-193.5, anything smaller or bigger would be ridiculous. It's about finding a nice medium and the new M*stang did that. It doesn't look too big and doesn't look like a tiny piece like the last car, which had lousy interior room and felt like you were driving a model instead of a real car.

 

Maybe we need to straighten out our priorities for the Camaro.

1.) Historically the car's been about going like stink around curves and high style.

2.) That usually means sacrificing (some) interior usability, cargo space, visability, and ease of ingress and egress.

If you're prirorities lie in factor #2, may I politely point out the GTO.