Thank you.

Now Proud I have a lot of respect for the 03/04 Cobra and the GT500 BUT if a Z06 is lighter by over 500 lbs AND has the same power who do you think is going to win?

Lets not get into mods because then it is the person with the most money who will win and we all know it. Stock for stock a C6 Z06 WILL walk a GT500 in the 1/4 and in the twisties.

Now if the GT500 has an optional IRS it will be heavier AND it will not launch as well but may handle better in the curves. It is a tradeoff.

Belive me NOBODY at Ford said let take on the new Z06 with a Mustang based car. They said lets make the Baddest @ss Mustang based car we can and see how well it sells and how well it performs.

 

Im not the biggest fan of the Stang but that looks pretty hot!

 

Well on the roadcourse part, Mr. Pony is relating real world observations of how close the 2 current models are. Will this continue in the next gen? Don't know.

On the quarter mile, there are plenty of Cobra's running around 11flat at near 130mph. The combos are varied but not exotic at all. Usually amounts to little more than blower swap/tuning/tires/half shafts. And nobody toots their horn over a nitrous run.

Bottom line. If I want to go hunting new Z06's in a MODDED GT500 next year, odds are I'm going to notch plenty of victories. Will there be a faster modded Z06 than a pullied/tuned Cobra? Probably. Do I care? Nope. 99% will be Cobra food.

There isn't going to be a Camaro alternative to the GT500, as it already exceeds the C6's performance levels. So for more money you can get a slower Vette. Or for a LOT MORE money you can get a much faster Vette. Either way, I agree the Vette is a better overall sports car than the Mustang, but there's no need to deny the obvious results of a blown 5.4 DOHC.

 

I can't get into the new Mustangs. Not my cup of tea as far as looks. And a friend bought one and he says it "just doesn't feel like it has enough power." (He used to driving a LS1 TA).

I'd pay alittle extra for a C6 with less horsepower then the Cobra. And don't think I'm bashing Ford either because if the new Camaro's suspension is similar to the Ford Mustang I'd still buy a lower HP C6 over a 450hp Camaro!!! (Hopefully GM goes with something new and better not old school.)

Cobra owners can accelerate your brick to 130mph in the 1/4 Mile, I'll take the turns at 130mph while my wife gives me a !!!

 

Oh come on guys!

Sure the GT-500 will be fast. But does anyone really think a 3850 lbs Mustang with a live rear axle and front struts is going to outrun an '06 Z06?

 

Unfortunately, nothing GM has or will have (short of a 70k Z06) will be able to come even close to it performance wise.

 

Not a chance in hell.

 

Nope, and mod for mod, the Z06 will still eat it. Does that make the Cobra bad? Hell NO! But come on Ford Fans, give the'vette credit where credit is due. I think the GT 500 MIGHT be able to beat a Z51 in a straight line ( the 'Vette does weigh 500 lbs less, which is good for about .5 sec by the calculations I am aware of) but mod for mod, again I BELIEVE a Z51 equipped 'Vette will beat it. We shall see. Personally, I think it is a cool car, and might have considered one if I did not believe that the Camaro will return.

On a seperate note, we have heard that car will retail somewhere between 35-40K (39k keeps getting thrown around, though I was not aware of any offical Ford announcement of the fact). My question is, what level of standard equipment will the car have at that price point? If it is a stripped down model (if it comes with a lot of standard equipment ala the GTO (forgive me not knowing) wouldn't it quickly start into 'Vette territory price wise?

For that matter, since everyone keeps talking about how they will be comparable to a Z06 when modded, couldn't I buy a GTO, spend the equivalent dollars on modding that car (ZL402 enginie, or Lingenfelter SC upgrades come to mind) and go snake hunting? And just in case a Camaro does come out, chances are very good I could buy both those upgrades (supercharge the ZL402!) and be within dollars of the GT500 in price.

I guess my point, which is aimed at the guys who think the GT 500 is the second coming, is that yes the GT500 is a sweet ride. but, it is not the be all end all. I still believe that short of production numbers and tests (since we are all bench racing) proving otherwise, the Z06 will be the better car, albeit at a signifacntly higher price (approx 26K base difference based on the GT500's estimated $39k)

 

Cobra's have always come very loaded from the factory. You might have an option for polished wheels and perhaps a stereo - but that's about it - so MSRP's won't climb much with the very limited options available. Dealer markups when they come out will be a whole nuther matter.

As for the Shelby Cobra vs the new Z06....gimme a break. The Z06 most certainly SHOULD own the Cobra - it has every advantage on its side, with the possible exception of actual power to the ground (easily made up in the weight difference). Of course, it will also cost ~65% more too. Whether or not it is worth it is up to you.

When the mods start - all bets are off....especially in a straight line.

Personally, I'd take a 2007 Z06 over a 2007 Cobra any day of the week....if I had $65k to throw at a car (unless I want to spend my kid's college fund.....hmmmmmm). But I don't, so the Z06 isn't even an option for me. The Cobra? *Maybe*. Then again, if I had $150k (or $250K) to throw at a car, I'd pick the GT over the Z06 (recall be damned). But I don't have that either, and would rather have a new house back in Texas in a couple of years when I retire from the USN.

 

Bottom line: This is all your conjecture, so it matters little to me. I think your statistic is more than a little off there. Maybe you should wait until the car is released, because you are the only one who sees your own observations as gospel.

Also, where did I deny the potential of the blown 5.4? Was it the part of my post that said I might actually consider one in a few months? Or is it where I said the vehicle's has plenty of raw potential?

I still do not think that a GT500 is going to get around a road course faster than even a base c6. In a drag race, sure, I bet it would be a great match up. Just not on a road course. It is going to take more than someone's experiences at a driving school to convince me. There is a reason why the SCCA ranks these cars in different categories (http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2005/stockc.html), because they need to be put in different categories. In very few racing scenarios I have seen do Mustangs and Corvettes go head to head with each other. Doesn't happen very often.

 

Well of course this thing isn't gonna touch the Z06!
With enough mods it will beat the c6 z06 in the 1/4 mile

BUT I doubt it will ever touch it in the twisties.

The point is the GT500 is one hell of a bargain. That much car for that much money is awesome. More performance than a vette for much cheaper price.

I'm thinking GM should up vette performance numbers without upping price. THis would make it more competitive with GT500, and leave room for camaro. But I don't think many people cross shop between a corvette and a mustang...

Even if they didn't up the vette hp, camaro has lots of room to smoke mustang GT.

it only needs 340 hp to take out GT, plus if its smaller and lighter wieght it will eliminate GT in twisties.

 

BTW Bob, nice Cobra! I just checked out your page, 544 RWHP is no joke! Only question, how does she hookup? Looks like you would smoke those skins bad.

 

Well, Beings SVT is going after the C6 (Not Z06) how will it compare then?....

(The Z06 comparo to me a Ford GUY! was a no go)


This should keep this going til page 8.

 

Take me off the list of voting EITHER WAY - that was not my intent with my previous post.
My message was to those of you who do not/can not get to an actual track and race these cars first hand, and the message is that pure raw data like RWHP, weight, and Cd are not the final words in a car's performance. Sure they contribute - but they are NOT definitive.
For example, I hear that the new Z06 is heading north of the 200mph barrier... that's awesome. But since the GT500 doesn't even have the body to go that fast without flipping itself, you can alter the tranny and rear axle gears to offer MUCH better acceleration and keep yourself in the power band of the engine between 50 and 130mph. Does that matter? Ask any NASCAR driver that had the wrong gearing under the car for a given track... anybody here recall the days back in 1997-1998 when Dale Earnhardt and Richard Childress were leaving EVERYBODY on restarts at Daytona, Talladega, and Atlanta? He pulled 20 car lengths on everybody in the first lap, but it wasn't because his car was lighter, had that much more hp, or because he was shifting better.... they had improved their total gearing package for the conditions - optimizing 2-3 and 3-4 shift points to match the engine's power band. IT WORKS.
The new automatic trannys in the 2005 Mustang GT is another good example of this approach. They out-accelerate cars with MUCH more power until they hit 4th, then they roll over and die. But if you just run stoplight to stoplight or take a short burst, it's gonna be a tough cookie to beat even with a 400hp car geared for high-end efficiency.

So many other things go into the "fastest car" thing too.
My biggest lesson at the most recent event was tires and brakes. With the H-rated Hankook AWR street tires on my SSP, I can lite 'em up anytime I want in 1st or 2nd, and bark 'em hard in 3rd. Bolt on a set of Fuzion ZRi tires (same size) and I can hardly get more than a bark power-shifting 2nd, and no more than a chirp into 3rd. The additional grip in those tires BLEW ME AWAY!!! I had the throttle hammered to the floor at the apex of every turn on the track and never had the powerslide function engaged - NEVER. (It was kind of disappointing actually, because I was wanting to do some nice power drifts just for kicks.)

Brakes are HUGE factors in road-racing. Probably the MOST significant contributor to lower times in fact. Z06's come with fantasic brakes stock, but most guys at the event had modded theirs with fluid, calipers, and cryogenic treatment of the rotors. Any w-compound pads will work once hot, but you can expect 2 days of fun per set of pads, and expect 8-10 days of fun between rotors. Cobra guys have the benefit of the Brembo units already. The cars are fat pigs, but Brembo units seem to handle the task well. No caliper changes, no fluid change until servicing is required, and the same treatment with pads and rotors as the Z06's. To a complete stop from 120, the Vette has an advantage of a few feet, but when it comes to scrubbing-off 60mph (from 120 down to 60) for a turn - there is virtually no difference between the two on the track. A blind man would not know which car he was in - again, I rode in both (and no, I'm not blind! ).

So look, I'm not here to say the '07 GT500 will own the '07 Z06. Quite the opposite actually - I'm saying these two cars, collectively, will own everything else being raced on road courses that doesn't cost $100k or more. As for how they size each other up - NOBODY, but NOBODY in this world (and especially on this board) can sit here and say for sure that one will dominate the other in any competitive category because the cars are not even built yet... PERIOD.
We will see when they meet on the tracks, and I'm sure they will.

Until they do, my advice is to be very thoughtful and consciencious about your predictions because things in the real world are not always as they seem on paper (or the computer monitor). I can assure you that neither one will embarass the other on any road course (or 1/4-mile) in this country though, and as I said before, I think it will come down to driver ability more than anything. THERE'S MY PREDICTION - print it.

[edit]PS - I have about 140 pics of the weekend I spent at CMP in South Carolina, if anybody cares, I can post a few of the cars I ran against and rode in, but I need to get to my PC at home to upload them. (Why won't this forum allow image attachments! )
Also, I was most dis-heartened at the fact that there was not one single F-body at the event - not ONE in more than 170 cars. Mustangs were most numerous, followed by Vettes, then Porsches, then BMWs, and then a smorgasbord of everything else from Ferraris, Masseratis, CTSv, 2004 GTO, T-bird Turbo Coupe, Audi TT, G35 Sport Coupe, and even a couple of Miatas and a VW Golf (man were they out of their league at this event!). Most awesome car there IMO was a black 2000 Crown Vic (P71 package aka "Cop Car") that had a Vortech unit huffing into the 4.6 with good lung capacity - the car did phenomenally well. I think the guy was getting irritated at everybody wanting a ride in it!

 

Yeah, I'd like to see some pics.

And that is disappointing about no F-cars.