I'm surprised you don't notice the difference in the hinges. There's quite a noticeable difference IMHO. The GP has a gliding, rolling, luxurious feel and the GTO does not.

>>>> Noticed no difference at all... both cars doors open and close eaily and smoothly.

I haven't experienced the flexing door pulls at all. They are thick solid metal... how could they flex at all?

>>>> By door pulls, I mean the parts you pull to close the door, not the chrome levers to open the door from the inside... I have no problem with them on the Grand Prix...

Mine don't squeak. Do yours? If so that's pretty strange. I traded in my 04 CompG (25k miles) on my 05. NO squeaks in the buttons of either car. Did you dream this?

>>>> Ya, I get an occasional squeak or creak. The brushed silver surrounds are even worse... put and pressure on them, and the flex... very disappointing.

Guess we'll have to differ on this. I believe the GTO's stereo display has poor contrast in marginal lighting conditions such as late or early in the day when you *almost* need to have headlights on. It works good in direct sunlight and at night. The GP's display works good or great under ALL conditions. And funny you should mention integration. That is one reason I brought up the HUD on the Prix. Some key info you see in your display right below the speedo (eg, FM frequency) is shown right in my HUD. Vastly superior IMO for helping a driver focus on the road, compared to looking down below the speedo. The Prix is in fact more heavily optioned... but when the GTO tries to emulate some features like the HUD, while such things are useful, they are still a mediocre substitute for the corresponding feature in the GP.

>>>> Most stereo lights get LIGHTER when the headlights come on, and are BRIGHTER when the headlights are off... either way, I haven't had a problem with them... or the Grand Prix's for that matter....

The cruise control on the GP is more positive in operation. There are no dual function motions, IE, stalk movements that could have ambiguous results depending on the current state of the cruise.

>>>> This is a non-issue... I doubt many people have a problem like this. If anything, I dislike the placement of the cruise controls on the Prix... it's somewhat awkwardly positioned at the bottom on the wheel.


Not to me... I'll be honest -- I wanted a GTO when I was shopping for the GP I got. The wifey ended up trumping me ("NO coupes!"); and one reason was, she knew about the limited rear-seat access on the GTO. The GTO cries out for a one-button "express-forward" function on the front seats. Maybe they're not slower than those on the GP. But it will sure seem that way for parents standing there in the rain or snow waiting to run the seat forward for one of their tykes.

>>>> I suppose they could put a fatser speed on it... again, though, not an issue for me.

I'm still not very clear on what is cheaper on the GP wheel. The palm swells feel great to me (BTW they increase road feel and control since you have more to grab) and the leather in fact feels better to me than that on the GTO's wheel. Whatever...

>>>> The MATERIALS are cheaper. They feel liek JUNK. The leather wrap on the wheel is poor and cheap feeling, the rubbermaid center airbag cover feels like, well, rubbermaid, the GP decal in the center is cheesey and tacked on looking, and looks glossy sticker. The brushed nickel spoke are cheap plastic that flexes and move.... I really can't get a whole lot more specific. I've mentioned all these things several times now.

Eh? I said at least one issue I have with the GTO's seats -- ingress/egress. I bump my head getting out (amazingly, this does not happen on my Firebird). I've said there is a lot to like about the GTO seats; the same is true though IMHO for the seats on the GP. Dismiss whatever you like... no one's forcing you to read my opinions.

>>>> I am 6'3" tall. I have never hit my head on the rooof getting in or out, and have zero ingress/egress issues... The GP seats are by far the worst I have ever owned. The comfort level is dismal.

I don't understand how anyone could find the GP's DIC a fumbling mess of buttons - again whatever. It's as simple as pie.

>>>> Let's see, we have a, what, a bold lower-case "i" on one button, and various other cryptic symbols that mean not a whole lot... the GTO has 4 buttons. MODE, SET, and up arrow, and a down arrow. It's very clean and simple to understand how to interact with... The Prix's buttons are confusing, and have you going into menus you dont really want, and are hard to escape out of, and you even end up changing settings you don't want to at times...

Neither of us has seen the specific cars (VIN's I mean) on which the other person is basing these opinions. All I know is what I saw on the two GTO's I drove and a couple others I sat in at dealers. And yes I did find some flaws. As I said, nothing like on my LT1 formula... but flaws nonetheless. Things like loose edges on the fabric of the color-coded door inserts and slightly mismatched gaps at panel junctions. Nothing terribly different than the kinds of foibles you might see on the Prix... but I'd say they are on a par overall between the two cars. Just my $.02

>>>> Yes, but items liek cheap feeling materials are not a "one-off" experience that would occur on a "lemon" vehicle.

No, it's not. All you are doing now is degrading your own credibility on the subject. Do you even have leather seats on the Prix you own? Really, rat pelts? The GTO's leather is alright and is softer than the leather was on my 99 Formula. But the wrinkly surface looks cheap while in contrast, the smooth leather on the Prix looks and feels more expensive.

>>>> Every leather GM steering wheel I have owned has "degraded" and felt like crap after about 6 months. The leather becomes glossy and overly smooth. Just cheap. The GTO's show's *NO* signs of this happening... and I am sure that is because of the better quality of materials used.


Well I do agree it could benefit from a smoother texture to make it more classy. But I have no issue with its thickness ( ) and let's be realistic - what other material besides some kind of polymers would you suggest? Solid wood like the 1920's? Or painted steel from the 1950's? The 2005 Accord also has a hard plastic console... I suppose that's no good either

>>>> I don't like that fact that when I simply TOUCH the dash pieces that I can tell they are like paper thin. It's just cheap and makes me feel liek I am driving a piece of junk Yugo or something. How about a thinker piece of plastic, or on that isn't hollow at the peak of the gauge cluster where it's already very thin on the exterior dimensions anyway!

Seriously. Both the GTO and the GP have very nice interiors compared to what GM was churning out in the 1990's. Maybe we should leave it at that.

>>>> GTO's interior is by far the bets interior GM has ever made that I have seen. Grand Prix's, is a step backwards in my opinion. I'm not saying this to bash your car... Hell, I'm bashing my own car by saying this.

 

American car interiors (aside from the GTO apparently) are just plan cheap. It's that simple. My girlfriend's 1992 Toyota Camry with 200,000+ miles on it has a more solid and quite interior than my mom's 2003 GP. The GP's interior "looks" a lot nicer than the Camry's, but once you get in and start feeling around and you drive, the difference is night and day. The Camry has absolutey zero creaking and panel rattle when driving.

It's true that the plastic parts in the GP have a very thin and hollow feel to them. The Camry on the other hand has very thick solid plastic that doesn't reverberate like a drum when you pound on it. It's more like a thud.

I have heard that the new Mustang is pretty solid though. I just hope that the 07 Camaro is just as solid.

 

Fortunately, Cobalt's interior is supposed to be top-notch, even though it's in a lower price class... I am going to try to check one out on my lunch this week...

The Sky and Aura interiors look good too, but it's hard to get a feel for them without being able ot sit in them yet.

 

American dashes are hollow inside and imports are not hollow inside?? I think you mean that the hardness of the dash makes it appear to be hollow since it doesn't absorb noise when you tap on it. Cuz my 88 Beretta had a soft spongy like texture, but it was far from quality,,lol. The soft plastic actually had some sort of lining under it to help keep and support the shape, but after a while it warped all around the w/s vent. The shape and texture has to do with the way people perceive it too. The center console plastic on my Camaro is hard plastic, but I think it actually is the best looking piece of plastic in my car.

The Cobalts harder plastic killed "perceived quality". It doesn't mean the car is a Pos. What if the Accord you mentioned had this so-called hard plastic on it's dash? Does it kill it's "Quality?"

Everyone seems like they want luxury car levels of amenities and feel in their affordable everyday cars, yet don't want to fork up the cash.

 

I owned 91 GTZ, just remembered the dash. You know, it felt better to the touch than my Camaro's.

Well, VW has much better interiors and are less reliable. That's not what I said. The hard plastic feel makes the "quality" appear less, or in other words it's perceived as more cheap. That's what I don't like.

Well, Accord, Mazda6, Mazda3, Civic, VW and Toyota are not luxury cars.