Now that the Solstice, Sky and Bengal are now approved for 2006, is the Camaro dead?
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Originally posted by PacerX
For the last time:
FWD AND RWD chassis ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. When people talk about "parts bin" engineering a platform, that DOES NOT include changing it from FWD to RWD.
You can keep some elements of the body structure, but not a whole lot.
RWD cars have a big thing called a driveshaft running right down the middle of the vehicle. Sacrificing the room taken up by a driveshaft on the interior in every FWD car you build on the same platform is STUPID - it isn't going to happen.
Furthermore, FWD cars have the engines pointed 90 degrees away from RWD cars, and have to package the transaxle cross-car at the same time. A transverse I4 + transaxle is WIDER than even a big block mounted longitudinally.
Furthermore, a transverse I4 is a LOT SHORTER fore and aft than ANY OF THE RWD engine mountings. This means that the "thermal event separator" (DO NOT CALL IT A "FIREWALL") and cowl are positioned too far forward in the vehicle to take a longitudinally mounted engine.
Front suspension systems ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE between FWD and RWD due to the fact that you have halfshafts sticking out in the FWD car, and the transverse engine and transaxle push the suspension mounting points outboard.
Likewise, the rear suspension systems are radically different.
There is NO WAY on God's green earth that a J-car/Delta is going to provide a ton of components to this car, and if it does provide some, you aren't going to care about them anyway. Honestly, do you really give a **** if a J-car and a Solstice-based Camaro share seat belt retractors????
For the last time:
FWD AND RWD chassis ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. When people talk about "parts bin" engineering a platform, that DOES NOT include changing it from FWD to RWD.
You can keep some elements of the body structure, but not a whole lot.
RWD cars have a big thing called a driveshaft running right down the middle of the vehicle. Sacrificing the room taken up by a driveshaft on the interior in every FWD car you build on the same platform is STUPID - it isn't going to happen.
Furthermore, FWD cars have the engines pointed 90 degrees away from RWD cars, and have to package the transaxle cross-car at the same time. A transverse I4 + transaxle is WIDER than even a big block mounted longitudinally.
Furthermore, a transverse I4 is a LOT SHORTER fore and aft than ANY OF THE RWD engine mountings. This means that the "thermal event separator" (DO NOT CALL IT A "FIREWALL") and cowl are positioned too far forward in the vehicle to take a longitudinally mounted engine.
Front suspension systems ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE between FWD and RWD due to the fact that you have halfshafts sticking out in the FWD car, and the transverse engine and transaxle push the suspension mounting points outboard.
Likewise, the rear suspension systems are radically different.
There is NO WAY on God's green earth that a J-car/Delta is going to provide a ton of components to this car, and if it does provide some, you aren't going to care about them anyway. Honestly, do you really give a **** if a J-car and a Solstice-based Camaro share seat belt retractors????
I understand the limitations of engine bay size, etc...
BUT....
If certain FWD platforms can be configured to also offer AWD versions of that car... why could they not be configured for RWD as well?
If they are able to go to AWD, there would have to be the tunnel for the driveshaft to get the power to the rear wheels in this situation for sure, right?
There are many FWD cars that have offered AWD variants, new and old... just off the top of my head:
1st Gen Talons/Eclipses
Old Pontiac 6000's
Stealth/3000GT
Vibe/Matrix
and a host of others....
So, what am I missing?
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Originally posted by Darth Xed
I had a thought driving today, and since I really have limited engineering knowledge, maybe you can help explain...
I understand the limitations of engine bay size, etc...
BUT....
If certain FWD platforms can be configured to also offer AWD versions of that car... why could they not be configured for RWD as well?
If they are able to go to AWD, there would have to be the tunnel for the driveshaft to get the power to the rear wheels in this situation for sure, right?
There are many FWD cars that have offered AWD variants, new and old... just off the top of my head:
1st Gen Talons/Eclipses
Old Pontiac 6000's
Stealth/3000GT
Vibe/Matrix
and a host of others....
So, what am I missing?
I had a thought driving today, and since I really have limited engineering knowledge, maybe you can help explain...
I understand the limitations of engine bay size, etc...
BUT....
If certain FWD platforms can be configured to also offer AWD versions of that car... why could they not be configured for RWD as well?
If they are able to go to AWD, there would have to be the tunnel for the driveshaft to get the power to the rear wheels in this situation for sure, right?
There are many FWD cars that have offered AWD variants, new and old... just off the top of my head:
1st Gen Talons/Eclipses
Old Pontiac 6000's
Stealth/3000GT
Vibe/Matrix
and a host of others....
So, what am I missing?
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,873
From: South Jersey
I think they are packaged with smaller drivetrain components for space and are incapable of transmitting 100% of torque to the rear wheels. In places like the "tunnel" there may not be enough room for the beefier components.
Also, Many (but not all) have transversally mounted engines which I'm guessing would provide a less durable drivetrain and more frictional losses in a RWD scenario.
Also, Many (but not all) have transversally mounted engines which I'm guessing would provide a less durable drivetrain and more frictional losses in a RWD scenario.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 24
Solstace
The Solstace strikes me as the 'Fiero II' more than a contender for the next Firebird/Camaro...
It's got the same small-engine, RWD setup (except forward engine design.... Oh well, it's not built on a Beetle frame this time), etc...
Someone will also probably make a V8 kit for it (Archie? Maybe if he runs out of Fieros to modify) too...
As for the next Firebird/Camaro, considering what they've done to the Impala, I'm not too optimistic... I'm guessing it will be a 'borrowed frame', and that it will probably be too high-tech to fit in with the preceeding vehicles... Based on what I've seen, the F-bodies are fairly easy to work on (apart from the extended windshield on the 4th gens), and an excessively high tech engine (ala Japanese/European 'How much power can we squeeze out of a 4-banger' design) would be (imho, I'd gladly trade gas milage for simplicity) bad news...
Especially considering that my friend with a V6 Grand Am has commented on having to (have his mechanic. He doesn't do his own work) remove the engine from the car in order to change the water pump, thermostat, and various other normally-external items... Of course, the 'just use a big enough engine that you don't have to do anything special to it to make it fly' mentality is probably dead with the F-body. I hope it makes a comeback at some time before the supply of good used 'birds dry up..
It's got the same small-engine, RWD setup (except forward engine design.... Oh well, it's not built on a Beetle frame this time), etc...
Someone will also probably make a V8 kit for it (Archie? Maybe if he runs out of Fieros to modify) too...
As for the next Firebird/Camaro, considering what they've done to the Impala, I'm not too optimistic... I'm guessing it will be a 'borrowed frame', and that it will probably be too high-tech to fit in with the preceeding vehicles... Based on what I've seen, the F-bodies are fairly easy to work on (apart from the extended windshield on the 4th gens), and an excessively high tech engine (ala Japanese/European 'How much power can we squeeze out of a 4-banger' design) would be (imho, I'd gladly trade gas milage for simplicity) bad news...
Especially considering that my friend with a V6 Grand Am has commented on having to (have his mechanic. He doesn't do his own work) remove the engine from the car in order to change the water pump, thermostat, and various other normally-external items... Of course, the 'just use a big enough engine that you don't have to do anything special to it to make it fly' mentality is probably dead with the F-body. I hope it makes a comeback at some time before the supply of good used 'birds dry up..
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 581
From: New York, NY
Originally posted by Darth Xed
I had a thought driving today, and since I really have limited engineering knowledge, maybe you can help explain...
I understand the limitations of engine bay size, etc...
BUT....
If certain FWD platforms can be configured to also offer AWD versions of that car... why could they not be configured for RWD as well?
If they are able to go to AWD, there would have to be the tunnel for the driveshaft to get the power to the rear wheels in this situation for sure, right?
There are many FWD cars that have offered AWD variants, new and old... just off the top of my head:
1st Gen Talons/Eclipses
Old Pontiac 6000's
Stealth/3000GT
Vibe/Matrix
and a host of others....
So, what am I missing?
I had a thought driving today, and since I really have limited engineering knowledge, maybe you can help explain...
I understand the limitations of engine bay size, etc...
BUT....
If certain FWD platforms can be configured to also offer AWD versions of that car... why could they not be configured for RWD as well?
If they are able to go to AWD, there would have to be the tunnel for the driveshaft to get the power to the rear wheels in this situation for sure, right?
There are many FWD cars that have offered AWD variants, new and old... just off the top of my head:
1st Gen Talons/Eclipses
Old Pontiac 6000's
Stealth/3000GT
Vibe/Matrix
and a host of others....
So, what am I missing?
I would also assume that you cannot fit too big of an engine sideways in a FWD car and the transmissions on FWD cars are not as strong as a RWD tranmissions (T56).
That's just a guess. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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