[QUOTE]Originally posted by formula79
[B]I don't see Redplanet clicking his heels in joy at the though of a Miata/S2000 type car being the basis for the next Camaro. Matter of fact I would love to see his face if you mentioned the two in the same sentence


BOY HOWDY!!!!!


If the architecture does not allow for this "theoretical" Camaro to be a REAL Camaro...then forget about using it! I'd rather NEVER see another Camaro unless it was a Camaro that we all could be proud of!

 

GOOD!!

 

Didn't someone mention that Solstice is quite a bit larger than a Miata or S2000?

 

It'not the Solstice's size that concerns me....I think the next Camaro needs to be smaller anyway......

It's just that I think turning a J-car into a Camaro is not something that we would be happy with.

I was impressed by the "SS" concept's chassis specs though. A substantially shortened version of that would be more of what I'd want for Camaro.

 

The Solstice is actually smaller and HEAVIER than the other two cars. Here are the stats: Solstice 153.1 inches long, 2900 lbs, Miata 155.7", 2400 lbs, S2000 162.2", 2810 lbs.

Maybe someone at GM will wake up and realize they are using the wrong chassis. A space frame car of this size could weigh 2200lbs. Early fieros which are 1 foot longer than solstice weigh 2400-2500 lbs.(with a 60 pound spare tire!) GM could do a warner bros edition of the solstice like the venture and put porky pig on the car. GM already has a stylish, popular, lightweight , inexpensive sports car, just bring it back.


Red, you should take a look at the 90 fiero gtp concept car for its chassis. It looks like a 4th gen camaro or firebird and is about the right size. In some GM warehouse you will even find a fiero concept car with a REAR SEAT, check it out. The space frame on it is still up to date, saturn still uses the same type today on its plain jane cars. It is such a flexible, versatile platform that vehicles like the vue and s series share the same spaceframe!!

 

The mistake here is that you are using measurements of lengths to compare. Add in a back seat and a bit of legroom, and you have a car that's at the very least is 175" long, and would likely be longer if real legroom was engineered in the back.

What's being debated is using Solstice's structure as a basis for Camaro. This means the front end structure, the firewall, the floorpan (assuming the Bengal & Sky are 4 passenger cars... using Solstice's directly is too short for 4 passengers), the suspension system (which I would suspect to be either Sigma or Corvette, since those are the only rear drive pieces GM will have in their inventory once Holden changes over), and other associated components & layouts that have nothing to do with what a car is built on, but is still chassis unique (ie: wiring, brake layout, HVAC, mounting points, etc...).

No one is talking about shoving a V8 in a Solstice and slapping a badge on it. And although the show Solstice was based on a Cavalier, does anyone here actually believe the production version will have a 20 year old chassis that costs as much to rework as designing a new chassis?

But to take a floorpan & skeleton that has already been crash tested, had all of it's unseen, non-performance components & systems done, that already has a low firewall and much of the same measurements as a Camaro should is logical, and practical.

For those of you who haven't checked:
Solstice is 71" wide. Miata's is 66" (73" Mustang & 74" Camaro)
Solstice track is 60.3 front & 60.5 rear. Miata's is 55.7 & 56.7 (60.4 & 60.6 Mustang & 60.7 & 60.6 Camaro)
Solstice's wheelbase is 95". Miata's is 89" (101" Mustang & Camaro)
Solstice height is 45". Miata's is 48.4" (53" Mustang & 51 Camaro)

Much closer to a new Camaro than a Mazda Miata.

 

If those parts are actually used...this whole concept would be far more palatable to me.

The concept Solstice used a J-car front suspension....but advertised it as a Delta platform. Either way...we're talking about an econo car front strut suspension. Something I don't especially want to see in a future Camaro.

The rear suspension was cobbled together from Aztek and Trailblazer parts. Consider this no fluke...the Pontiac C6 AWD concept (based on the Epsilon Grand Am), which will appear at Detroit uses similar parts for it's rear suspension/drive.


On the other hand...the SS concept...which we have theororized to point to the future of RWD at Chevy has a C5 front suspension modified with coil overs, and a C4 IRS, also modified with coil overs.

Now, as far as what I'd like to see in a new Camaro......THAT'S MORE LIKE IT!!!

 

I am sorry, this argument makes ZERO sense to me...

I mean a Solstice is nothing more than a bastardized Ion....realize that! I would much rather see the car based of a V-car/Sigma hybrid that anything. Otherwise don't make it. Anyway..outta curiosity..if GM could fit a V8 in the Solstice, don't you think they would have since it would have been much easier to bolt to the T56 than a 4 banger?

 

Bastardized Ion? You've got to be kidding me. I guess it doesn't say "Camaro" on the outside, so it sucks. You'd have to be pretty short sighted to not see that this has the potential to be an exciting car. I like the thinking that if something's not your cup of tea, it must be some parts-bin pile of junk.

GM is attempting to bring something FUN back into their lineup and some people want to sit back and and crap all over it. Fine, you must be satisfied with their current lot of mediocre fleet/family cars and fwd/auto drivetrains.

A V8 Solstice is called a Corvette, that's why. I don't believe this is what they're shooting for with this car.

BTW, I think guionM made some very vaild points regarding the Solstice chassis and its potential as a Camaro. Why be so threatened by examining this as an alternative--an alternative to no Camaro at all?

I think it's clear that no one is calling for a Solstice-based Camaro if it is going to mean compromise.

 

I would agree... I would think that GM wants Solstice to be powered by something other than a V8.... I would think this is meant ot be something to lure 'tuners' over.... not V8 people as much.

 

Ummm...the Solstice is a Delta car or J car..same as the ION...it is cobbled together from other cars too. Essentially what GM did it took teh car to the same person who makes thier RWD J-car dragsters and asked them to make the chassis for the roadster.


Also...why not put a V8 in the Solstice...it's a Pontiac, and when it debuted last year they knew nothing of the GTO coming here and Pontiac need a Halo car. Hell, they could have used a 4.8L, or even put a 230-250hp V6 in, but they settled for 4 cylinder.

I am almost 100% certain we will never see a Camaro based off the Solstice platform. The V-car/Sigma solution is much more likely as it will make the car heavy enough to not be a threat to the Corvette and solve the ergonomics issues the F4 had. I really can't see useful backseat going into anything Solstice based.

 

I think this answer is glaringly obvious... Why would GM want to make something that could even be remotely considered a Corvette competitor, when they can make it a Miata/S2000 competitor instead?

 

Why would they wanna make an S2000/Miata Competitor into a Miata?

Look i know I was wrong early on when i started this stuff...but now I have much better sources. The chances of a Solstice based Camaro are VERY small

 

Im not saying Camaro should be... I am saying Solstice should be... and just because it has a 4-cylinder, doesn't mean it can't have better performance that the Miata.

I also doubt that a future Camaro would be based on Solstice, but Pacer X bought up some interesting points....

 

Who really needs "sources" when Red Planet basically shot it down at the top of this page for all of us to see?