hmm. Unfortunately for Nissan God's new gift to (affordable) engines is the LS3 obviously, not the 370z's sixer... I sure hope we get the LS3 in the standard V8 5thgens, those pupppies jam 380-390 hp to the wheels in Vette trim, and well on into the mid 400s rwhp range w/ bolt ons... Insane...

 

That's what the guys were telling me in the pits that day when I told them I was shooting for 13's, " don't be disappointed b/c you probably won't get the 13's with those mods."

No... ...no word play.

Well, I ran a 14.29 bone stock right down to the paper filters and Bridgestone Potenza's. I'd bet with slicks I could've done it, 60ft was 2.20's then.

What I meant by stock motor is;
Stock: block, heads, intake, exhaust, plenum, cam, injectors, gears...etc...I never cracked open the valvecovers, even still had the complete interior w/floor mats & A/C etc.

I did have:
A meticulous tune up...optimizing TPSv@WOT, IAC and timing etc.
Free modds(T/B bypass, cut airboxes) a chip, airfoil, K&N's, , March Pulleys 3pc, B&M shift improver kit, removed spare tire equip, Dynomax 2.5" crossflow muffler, 1/4 tank gas, Goodyear GSC's.

 

it takes more than just an engine to make a fast car. remember - the new 370z is expected to weigh only about 3000 pounds. give nissan some respect - no GM motor close to 3.7 liters is producing anything near 350 hp. even the DI 3.6 still is 'only' producing a few more than 300hp. give credit where it's due.....for a v6, nissan engines kick serious ***.

some very basic hypothetical situations we need to consider with all of the above:

a 350 hp 3000 lb Z would push roughly 8.5 pounds per hp.

a 400 hp 3600 lb 2010 Z28 would push 9 pounds per hp.

even though the z28 has more overall hp, and would 'only' have to push .5 more pounds per hp, the difference in total weight of about 600 pounds would still place it at a 300 pound (hp/lb ratio) disadvantage.

our new z28 would have to be at least 425 hp and no more than 3600 pounds in order to equal the power/weight ratio of 8.5 per hp of the z.

the point here is, auto manufacturers are hurting everywhere, even the almighty toyota is cutting back on proposed new factories in the u.s. with slow sales. everyone is fighting tooth and nail for customer dollars and success is not a 'given' just because it's a new ls3 camaro.

the competition is fighting fiercely for survival. even cash-strapped ford is working very hard to REDUCE new vehicle weights which have ballooned stupendously over the last 10 yrs.

reduced weight, and smaller more high-tech motors = less work on the motor, better handling, instant fuel savings and closer CAFE compliance.

gm needs to watch what the competition is doing closely and put their collective minds together and bring the new camaro in as light as possible. nobody wanted the portly 3900 pound GTO - even with 400 hp it was too damn massive to toss around, making it even more of a gas guzzler.

there is absolutely no reason the new camaro should be any bigger or much heavier than an 80's fox body mustang.

less is more.

 

Will hand it it's ***? I agree that the 370Z will likely be faster, but I doubt by much. Certainly not an *** handing. It only took Nissan how many years to make a car that could whoop on a car that came out 10 years ago? I would hardly say Nissan's Z car is king. Even in the realm of imports, Nissan's Z car has never been king. The Evo and STI murder it in performance per dollar, even in simple straight line acceleration.

There is a reason that the LS1 is dogmatically worshiped; because it is a engine that has proven itself so many times over that there is no need for introduction any longer. This seems to get plenty of people's panties in a bunch.

 

Problem is, 3.7 liters doesn't mean a whole lot when your v6 engine is bigger than the rival's v8 engine. Doesn't seem as efficient.

Some hypotheticals to consider: we don't know if the Z car will be 3000lbs. I doubt this one very, very much. I can't see it losing close to 400lbs. Second, we don't know what each car will be producing powerwise to the wheels. Power to weight is a meaningless measurement when you use crank hp to determine it.


I wouldn't be that surprised if the base v8 car did have 425hp. I would be far more surprised if the Nissan was 3000lbs.


You totally lost me on the less work on the motor comment. How is there less work on a smaller motor than a larger one?

I agree. However, the 5th gen is a lot bigger, and probably much heavier than an 80's fox Mustang. Probably why I don't have much interest in one at this point.

 

OK, but you are effectively comparing a car (the 370Z) to an engine (the LS1). The LS1 in a 3200 lb Corvette is quicker yet than an LS1 in an F-car.

Additionally, with respect to the whole car, as I and others have pointed out, 3000 lbs sounds quite optimistic for a car that currenty weighs 3300-3400 lbs in coupe form. A 200 lb weight loss puts it in the 3100-3200 lb range.

It is quite possible that a 370Z will be a bit quicker than a stock LS1 F-car. But even if that is the case, I don't think that makes the 3.7L V6 a superior engine to the LS1 (which has since been superceded twice by the LS2 and the LS3...). Which is not to say the 3.7L VQ is not an impressive engine; it certainly is. But the small block is quite the technical achievement, even the now 11 year old (!) LS1...

 

Hmmm, let me think about that...

10?

 

Horsepower bench racing is cool, but...
Again, Horsepower isn't the end-all, be-all, indicator of true power or performance.
How much peak torque will each make?
At what rpm?
From what rpm to what rpm, do they make and maintain most of their torque?
Which one will be geared best to optimize their engine's power curve, considering their weight...etc?

We're really gonna have to wait and see...

Really, I'd be impressed if the 370Z beat the G8 GXP..

 

 

Someone gets it.

 

While true, I suspect rising fuel prices and CAFE will require GM to react. I think the answer lies in the Ecotec. They're already surpassing 130hp/l with the 2.0l turbo, and I suspect that 350hp is achievable with a bigger motor. I've seen aftermarket turbo kits claiming 350+hp with the 2.4l, so why GM couldn't produce a production version that can meet the performance needs and still be CAFE friendly.

 

I am in doubt a 350hp turbo ecotech won't be gas friendly. Most turbo engines aren't that fuel sipping.

 

Not Aveo fuel friendly, but certainly better than today's 350hp V8s.

 

Maybe if today's 350hp v8 weren't in lard *** vehicles, there fuel economy wouldn't be so abysmal. The 3000lb Solstice GXP gets 19/28mpg. Not horrible, but not that great. Throw a few hundred more pounds on that rating, and see what it does. Boosted engines boosted for the sake of power equals lower fuel economy. It takes fuel to make power.

I knew someone a few years ago with an SRT-4, and that thing guzzled gas like a large sedan.

 

in the famous words of toretto: "winning is winning.....whether by an inch or a mile"

as for how many years it took nissan? nissan's z has not ever competed with pony cars. it has nothing to do with what nissan 'could' have made to compete with a 10 yr old ls1. pound for pound or liter for liter, a nissan v6 puts out more power per cc than an ls1.

conversely, what's getting the ls1 owners panties in a bunch is their fabled cars are being matched and surpassed in power....and that's hard to accept especially from a mere japanese v6. that's what matters 10 yrs after an ls1 was introduced.

it's truly amazing how little respect so many of you have for a powerplant of great technical ability, in a pretty small 3.7 package. if it was a gm engine everyone would be singing such praise for 350 hp from a 3.7 there'd be a human sacrifice to thank the gods.

and btw, nissan's z car has been king before.....it knocked chevy's corvette on the canvas in 1990 with the intro of the 300z tt. had it not been for that car, gm would never have been motivated to immediately cross the 300 hp barrier in 1992 with lt1's or even ls1's later on. back then, chevy never did see the knockout punch coming.....far away from the land of the rising sun.

same short-sighted rationale i see with fbody owners dissing mustangs, and how they're not as quick as ls1's - baloney. sure some ls1's are faster, but not ALL are faster than a new stang. they're very close in performance, but we have blinders on, and talk down anything that's not GM.

if it were not for the success of the mustang we would not be looking at a new camaro right now......competition is a GOOD thing. a rival having a good or better product forces GM to come up with something even better.

same with the 1990 z - it forced gm to do better in every aspect of the vette inside and out.

the point is, as noted in the article, the zcar is expected to weigh 3010 pounds. mustang's are expected to lose weight as well in 2010, yet i hear nothing from gm proposing a < 3500 pound 2010 camaro to match ford. big hp alone will not win a majority of buyers.....gm already failed using that formula on the gto. more weight = more engine to move it. more engine = more wasted gas. more wasted gas = more money pissed away. oil is $124 a barrel. consumers are running like hell from gas guzzling vehicles....pay attention to what the competition is doing, gm.