You should review the end of the paragraph, because pound for pound it does not. Displacement does not equal engine size or weight. Educate yourself on engine construction.

Perhaps some LS1 owners are, but I hope you are not insinuating me. As I stated, I believe the Nissan will be faster. Oh well. However, two generations of engine of been introduced since the LS1.

It is pretty small? Let me try to find the weight of the engine, but I know the LS engines all come in around 400lbs dry, give or take. I am pretty damn sure the Nissan v6 is heavier. You don't seem to get that the v6's lesser displacement does not make it lighter. What is even the point of the lower displacement when you are not getting the advantage of better gas mileage over a bigger engine?

I give praise the the 300zx tt, but saying GM would not have been motivated to up the horsepower is a pretty stupid thing to say. GM does have other rivals it competes with. That was almost 20 years ago as well.

Not all of us are GM not huggers. However, EVERY LS1 powered vehicle, besides maybe the LS1 GTO, will have a speed advantage over the new stang. To some people, this is an issue of brand loyalty. However, to me it is a matter of Ford's unimpressive performance. Inevitably, it all comes down to the driver, but the f-cars have an advantage.

You are probably right.



I don't expect it to come in that light. It is an overambitious estimate. Where did you hear the Mustang was supposed to lose weight? All estimates I have heard is that it will gain weight.

 

That is the question. A 350hp 3000lb z car would be something though. I am not holding my breath on the curb weight however.

 

 

Considering that its going to start at over $35k and seats only two, you might as well consider it Corvette competition.

 

educate myself you say???? pound-for-pound (or liter per liter as mentioned before) is a RHETORICAL acronym. it's not a literal meaning of one engine being physically larger or heavier than another. last time i checked, 3.7 liters is a full 2 liters of displacement smaller than a 5.7 ls1

pretty stupid you say??? sorry...but the facts indicate otherwise: from the C4 intro in 1984 to 1991, the corvette engine had a total gain of only 45 hp (205 in 1984, and 250 in 1991). that's eight full years and only 45 stinking hp. enter the 300hp 1990 300z tt and magically the hp on the 92 vette matches it: 300hp lt1. a 50 hp increase one model year after nissan kicked chevy's ***.

nevermind what we 'expect'....the automotive press as clearly stated in the thread starter's link says 3010 pounds. as for the mustang i've heard this from at least two sources...motor trend, and a ford internet blog.

 

truth

 

who said anything about drag racing? you are aware that in addition to drag racing there are autocross, and top speed shootouts, right? a 500 hp supra doing 12's? what, don't they know how to shift? if you want to downplay high hp japanese tt cars, downplay this: a 480 hp TT gtr is turning in mid to low 11's at 120+

educate myself????? that's laughable here's some education for you: regardless of what some magazine or journalist said, the car failed with the king of all decision makers - the public....as evidenced by how many new 2008, 2009 etc etc gto's you see being sold today.

a moot point in this discussion.....if the reason for excessive weight is safety standards then how is it that nissan is able to pull of hundreds of pounds of weight reduction and still be in compliance, and other manufacturers are exploring this path as well?

 

Competition is good but the LT1 was in development well before we even got a whiff of the 300zx TT, it was hardly some frenzied response from GM like you're making it out to be. The Vette had stagnated some and stepped it up a notch w/ the LT1. They also had the ZR1 floating around in 1989 to nip this kinda talk in the bud. That had been under development for several years no doubt.

Using your own logic in your anti GTO line, it seems like the Z car was killed off here for several years while the Vette lived on and has now moved on to a level the Z car can't even come close to. Guess we know who won that little battle, if it was ever a battle to start with since they were in pretty different price ranges...

LOL, all this talk of LS1 owners being upset, I really don't see anyone flaming the 370z. All the flamebait and argumentative attitude seems to be coming from those touting the Z. But whatever, I'm looking forward to the faster 370z level cars, performance is good from any maker in my book.

I'm also looking forward to the supposedly slightly lighter 350-400 hp 5.0l Mustang too. I want to see how the Camaro will stack up, hope some finalized info on them comes out soon. I forsee a 370+ rwhp LS3 which should make these bench racing sessions very interesting...

 

My '90 IROC was rated at 245hp/345lbft with the standard port, IRON heads, with only 1.94"/1.5" valves, 9.3: compression, and a mild cam...and was closer to 260hp in reality.
The Vette recieved the "D" port aluminum heads, with 2.00"/1.55" valves, 58cc chambers, over 10:1 compression, and a slightly hotter cam, and better CAI and exhaust....250hp...
The exhaust was also upgraded in '91, but someone still forgot to raise the power rating..

Then, as if that weren't enough, the ZR1 was introduced, with 16 fuel injectors, 8 that came on at the 3500rpm mark, a wild intake system, 32 valves and 2 overhead cams and revised exhaust, oh, and..375HP!!
But wait, there's more....the dealer installed Callaway Twin Turbo system. Packing a paltry 450HP!!!!!..and a wheezingly 600lbft of torque!

If the 300Z TT was Nissan's HALO car, then it would have to compete with GM's ZR1 or Callaway TT...or just as well pick on a V6 Camaro....

 

All this bench racing for a car that hasn't came out and hasn't lived up to any claims about power or weight...

BTW, It seems totally stupid IMO that anyone would argue that the 2010 370 Z would or wouldn't be faster than a car that came out over a decade before it. How sorry would it be that a 2010 370Z couldn't destroy a LS1 powered Corvette or F-Body? I am glad that Nissan is bringing cars like this to the market. That just means that what ever GM has in the market to compete with it will hopefully be that much better.

 

AGAIN, displacement and weight do not go hand in hand. Pound for pound means exactly what it means, and the LS1 is better in this department.


There was a new motor introduction. You do realize the LT1 was in development for several years, right? Chevy just didn't magically create the engine after Nissan came out with their 300ZX. Not trying to take anything away from the 300ZX, because I believe it was that last great car Nissan made over here, but a new engine doesn't develop itself in one year. So yes, it is a pretty stupid thing to say.

Two sources? Wow, you must be an expert. As for the Nissan, the car is not out yet. When the 370Z comes out, and it weighs 3010lbs, I will believe it. it wouldn't be the first time an automotive manufacturer of publication is ambitious with it's estimates.

 

In theory only. Pumping a 6L engine at 2000rpm vs a 2L engine at 6000rpm will not generate anywhere *near* the same fuel economy. But Fuel economy is a *VERY* difficult thing to control and improve. Deciding theoretical gear ratios alone is a 5-6 dimensional plot...

Nothing rhetorical in your statement, and no acronyms present. You made a straight up declaration, as to state a fact. You were wrong. And just to define the words you used (incorrectly):

The 300ZX TT was never a "knockout punch" to the corvette.
The 300ZT TT, 3000GT VR4, and Toyota Supra Turbo of the 90's all produced ~300hp in a twin-turbo 6 cylinder arrangement. Notice that past the late 90's all 3 were no longer produced - even for their domestic "rising sun" Japanese market. A few more horsepower is pretty meaningless... cause apparently consumers wanted corvettes and other cars here in the US, and apparently in Japan the cars just didnt sell.

The 3.7L V6 producing 350hp is pretty cool. That a lot of N/A hp/liter. But that doesnt impress me at all. Formula 1 engines produce stupid hp/liter. The S2000, when introduced, spouted crazy hp/liter for a production vehicle. But its 2L engine got less power and worse fuel economy than a LS1. And beyond that the engine was suprisingly large and heavy for its displacement. Why should I be excited?

There is nothing *amazing* about that engine. Making powerful engines these days is incredibly easy compared to what it was a few years ago - making a fuel efficient one that generates a lot of power is though... Which is why the LNF is one of my favorite new engines along with the 2.3L DIZI engine from Mazda.

What I would be excited about is the 3000lb car - cause making a lightweight car for said engine is freaking hard to do now with all the rules of the road.

 

a lot of selective reading going on here: i noticed you 'overlooked' the part of the sentence that said: "liter for liter." read what i said again: pound-for-pound OR LITER PER LITER. just to clarify for those not familiar with it's usage, here is a wikipedia description of what pound-for-pound means: "It can also be used to describe how any two things compare when bearing in mind their varying quantities." we are not talking about the actual weight in pounds or kilograms. a 5.7 liter ls1 outputs 61 hp/liter. a 6.2 ls3 outputs 70 hp/liter. a 330 hp 3.7 in the g37 nets 89 hp/liter. a 350 hp 3.7 Z motor will output nearly 95 hp/liter. pound-for-pound or liter-for-liter whichever you prefer, the Nissan motor is superior in it's hp output for its relative size.

so lets see.....if the lt1 was in development for "several years," why then did it only appear 2 yrs AFTER the automotive press and public deemed the 300ztt a superior vehicle? why not same year as the z, or even before? and why then at the same hp rating of 300hp as in the z? nissan set the 300hp mark and everybody else followed. the lt1 was not in development for any number of years....it was scrambled together in about 2.5 years using 70% existing small block hardware between 1989 when the z was rumored to have 300hp, and late 1991 when the lt1 was mass produced. aside from aluminum heads and reverse flow cooling it was nothing revolutionary that required the "years" of development you guys are implying. by god, how many "years" of development did it take gm to come up with the wonderful optispark system right under the waterpump. it was a stop-gap holdover motor rushed into production to match the competition until the ls series was developed.

exactly where in my post do i declare to be an expert or official source? this is all internet discussion, opinions, and where we heard something. where do i claim that this is official information from ford? motor trend and an internet blog are hardly confirmed sources, but the point is this is what nissan and for are working towards and gm is not.

some of the comments in this thread and the defense of sub-standard gm products of the past are quite surprising. for 7 years i've been on this board and i never really realized how deep in the gm sand some members have their heads buried.

wake up people......there are other good brands out there and gm would be wise to learn from some of the things they are doing. same goes the other way....other brands could learn some things from what gm is doing.

be objective in our thinking

 

[QUOTE]selective reading of partial sentences. re-read what i said (correctly please): i believe my sentence was qualified by using the words "liter for liter"

the 300z tt knocked the vette on it's backside. like it or not. the vette of that year lost every single objective test it ran against the z. when you lose, you gotta eat crow, and the vette lost that for the years the z was made in the early 90's. even the lt1 vette was still inferior of the tt z.

 

SIZE is not the correct word when talking about displacement. If the 3.7L V6 takes up the same or more space under the hood, and adds the same amount of mass to the vehicle, then it is equivalent to the LS1 in terms of size. Again, I'm not ripping on this engine; I'm pretty impressed by these 300+ hp V6s. BUT, the beauty of the small block is that it allows large piston displacement to fit in a compact package. So while it may be neat as a mental exercise to get big power out of the "little" 3.7L of swept volume, it doesn't really matter if the actual volume of the engine under the hood is the same as that of the 5.7L (or 7.0L, for that matter) small block. If both engines weigh, say, 450 lbs and take up a box that is 20x20x20 inches under the hood, what difference does it make if one is "only" 3.7L?