Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying we owe any American company our undivided, blind loyalty - not at all. They too must earn your business with good quality product that meets your needs for a fair price. Please understand that I am emphatic about this.
There should be no free rides, but definitely a fair playing field - and that goes both ways too.

My biggest problem is with those who won't even go onto a US carmakers lot and look. They are brainwashed into thinking foreign is better - period.
And the people that go to the Homier Tools website and buy a set of jackstands for $7.99 that were made in Malaysia - for Godsake people, your LIFE is on the line when you get under that car on those jackstands... is your life worth the $10 difference between a safety-certified set of jackstands and a set made from who-knows-what alloy in Malaysia?!?!

It's the "I don't care" attitude and the "foreign is always better" attitude that makes me see red. The fact that companies slide around rules and regulations to increase their profits is just fuel on a fire already burning.

Thanks for the .02 Bob.

 

Proud, just wondering, you seemed to be implying in your post at times that many of the parts Toyota, Honda and the others put in their cars are made by "sweat-shop" 3rd world suppliers with little to no safety regulations, etc. If this is true, why the heck hasn't anyone in our wonderful media not done an investigative report on this? They're usually game for horror stories abroad like this.

In the meantime, yes I WILL keep waving the flag and keep driving my wonderful American designed, sourced and built vehicles. They haven't done me wrong yet.

 

Funny you mention that.. I was just checking out my friend's 05 Acura TL w/ navi... awesome car. I looked at his window sticker. Built in Marysville, Ohio, 80% domestic part content including the motor - transmission was one of the few things japanese-made. This car was designed, engineered, distributed, and marketed almost exclusively in the US, too, and is closely related to the Honda Accord which shares all of the same domestic qualities.

So with the exception of the end profits can come back to Japan after everyone in the US gets paid from his car purchase... most of which most likely just get reinvested back into the US.... I just don't see a compelling reason why he should have spent his hard-earned money on the Cadillac equivalent (CTS) if he didn't like it nearly as much?

People buy what they like best. GM needs to stop relying on this whole 'patriotic' crutch. Make a better car and eventually people will buy it. Not immediately... you have to gain their trust back. But they are headed in the right direction, so now they just need time. Time they may not have, true, but that's life. And we're not living in the beginnings of a world economy. Japan is not the devil and we're not all going to become a 3rd world country if we don't start buying cars we don't like because at the top of the corporate ladder, one company is based in the US and one in Japan.

 

Great post Proudpony

 

Why? Because they are trying to make up for the advantage the competition has had on them for the past 20 years? The sole ingredient that the competition has used to allow them to chip away at the US automakers for years. And now when the US automakers are nearly FORCED to level the playing field to be competitive, people want to cry foul. I don't like jobs going overseas any more than anyone else does, but I would like for GM to remain in business more than I care about some people here being laid off. If I had to choose between SOME people being laid off due to outsourcing of jobs, and GM going under, I would have to say that sacrificing some jobs here and allowing GM to remain strong would be my choice.

 

No, not all foreign. Only German.

And not necessarily better in every instance, no. But generally, pretty good. They get my vote 1st, american gets 2nd vote, and everything else is a looooong way off.

[edit] That has to do with the engineering of mechanical components. Not with style or design.

 

What this guy said.

 

Quickly...
Wachovia Bank is going to cut 4000 jobs in the US by sending its IT work to India - plain and simple.

Look at how various media sources report this...


From a News/blog website in India...
"...a move that will cost an undisclosed number of jobs."
"...Wachovia spokeswoman Christy Phillips confirmed. The company has made no decision on what companies it will use, but the work will be done in India, she said."So here we KNOW it is being done in India, but we don't know how many jobs.
Quotes from a corporate representative.

A local news/retail merchant report...
"...said it plans to cut up to 4000 more jobs by the end of 2007."
"The bank said it is also considering sending technology jobs overseas."
"Chairman and ceo Ken Thompson said it is “exactly the right time” to undertake the initiative despite entering 2005 “with our earnings momentum strong and with our outlook so positive. "
So here we know how many jobs and a timeline, but we don't know where they are going, just "overseas".
We also see they are extremely profitable as they are, but feel the need to grab for even more profit at the expense of US jobs.
Again, quotes from a corporate representative.

A local NBC station report
"Officials at Wachovia say they will cut 3500 to 4000 jobs by 2007."
"Wachovia will not say where the layoffs will occur but confirms that technical and support staff will most likely be reduced rather than tellers and customer service workers."
So here we see that some jobs are going away, but we don't know where they are going or exactly jow many. Interestingly, this article says NOTHING about the jobs going offshore - they look like simple eliminations instead of movements offshore. "Technical and Support staff instead of tellers and customer service workers"... Ummm, right.

My mom is a retired VP from Wachovia with 35 years. The truth inside is that Wachovia is going for more profit by moving about 4200 IT jobs to a group in India - PERIOD. Families and people in Charlotte NC and Winston-Salem NC will pay the price for their loyalty to this company, and the customers will all be clueless that it ever happened (at least until Mozambi Yoda Hashnelli answers their call about an errant charge...).


Just thought I'd take a moment to show us all how "non-important" and insignificant these job relocations can be. 4000 at a time.
Good trade... a $60k IT job for a $12/hour manual labor job at Toyota. We're on top with that one.

Here's another situation with 14,000 jobs going to India from IBM...

So we all now believe - because the media says so - that Toyota is hiring all kinds of people here in the US, and that these bazillions of jobs are all good-paying, perfect, and their plants are super-safe and efficient - right? How many people does Toyota employ in the US anyways?
30,000? 50,000? 100,000?
Let's see...
1055 employees in thier admin facility in Erlanger, KY
929 employees at the engine plant in Buffalo, WV
6934 employees making Camrys in Georgetown KY
619 employees building steering columns in Long Beach CA
5715 employees in Fremont CA building the Corolla, Tacoma, and PONTIAC VIBE!
916 employees at three plants in Troy, MO - St. Louis, MO - and Madison TN
4659 employees at stamping in Princeton IN
360 employees building V8's for the Tundra in Huntsville AL
38 employees at the yet-to-be complete truck facility in San Antonio (expected 2000 by end 2006)

So Toyota employs a grand total of 21,225 people within the boarders of the USA. Whoopty-friggin-doodah.
GM has announced plans to cut 25,000 jobs. Disparity?!?!
I think Scott already covered the advantages in wage and healthcare , as well as community support, that domestic employers offer over offshore employers here. But hey, show me another ad on TV where Toyota claims to be doing what's good for America... employing our people... and get me convinced that buying a Toyota is actually HELPING the US economy...

As for Toyota's promoting of a safe work environment...
It's no accident Toyota's Ky. plant is union-free
"Toyota, for example, runs its nonunion plants with insufficient regard for worker safety, then forces injured workers back onto jobs they can no longer perform."
"That’s why Toyota has surprisingly high turnover, even though standards set by UAW contracts force the company to pay wages almost as good as the Big Three automakers. That’s why support for forming a union at Toyota — while still not a majority — is higher now than it’s ever been."
"Last year, the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) required Toyota to post notices in its Georgetown plant stating it would cease and desist from illegal intimidation targeted at pro-union activists. The company had issued written warnings — the first step toward termination — to workers who did nothing more than talk openly about the benefits of joining the UAW."



I'll leave it at that for now. Think about it.

 

Here to serve... large helpings of truth and fact.

Thanks to you and others who take the time to read.

 

ProudPony, with regards to your last post...

I agree, the media appears to be biased towards foreign automakers. It is important to spread the truth. That most likely will take time.

GM disgruntled many people. When GM was making cars that IT wanted (and not the people), and had the attitude that it's enough for people anyway, that's when people started turning to foreign automakers. Foreign automakers provide poeple with vehicles that they want.

Gosh, when was the last time you saw somebody make a forced purchase? People buy what is of value to them.

Eventually GM caught on, but is still a good half a decade away from providing products that the public wants and is excited about. So is it really all that surprising that the media favours foreign automakers?

Right now, spewing patriotic tone to the truths listed will get some attention, but not enough if the product does not sell to the public. I said that before, and many others have said that, and i will reiterate. until GM makes products that people want, it will not win.

GM has many good vehicles right now, some that competition cannot even touch. I am very excited about some of GM's offerings and upcoming models. But how freaking long did it take? 15 years?

And if you support "buy GM because it's american", then, my friend, you are on the losing side. Why? Because one really good case is North Korea. CLose the markets, no export or import. What about USSR during all those years of communism? China, on the other hand, is being smart. It is opening its markets to global markets.

So please, just try to see the whole picture. And while we're at it, let's kick Mercedez, BMW, and Audi out of here. Let's kick GM out of China (because we want to remove foreign competition from here as well). Let's kick GM out of Europe and Australia. Heck, let GM build cars only in America and Canada. Wait. No, forget Canada.

SO you propose that people in the States buy only american made cars, while you do not mind others buying GM automobiles? I hope that is not what you are proposing.

One area I will agree with you is spreading TRUTH, including plants and working conditions among foreign automakers.

 

Proud Pony, Toyota directly or indirectly employs many more people than that in the US. You're only listing those that work in the assembly/construction process of their vehicles as far as I can see. Dealerships? Engineering? Marketing? Distribution? Parts? US Corporate?

I know ultimately that Toyota is still far short of GM in terms of what it's giving the US. But it's far from sending our money straight from our wallet to Japan like some people try and infer.

 

Rationalization.

Truth:

GM generates 43% more US jobs per car sold than Toyota.
GM contributes 400% more to the US GNP than Toyota.

Again, buy what you like, but don't try to say it's the same. Or nearly the same. Or "not too bad." Or whatever.

 

Ah, so that's GM's problem! Way too many employees making way too much money with way too many benefits!

-B

 

[QUOTE=Beanboy]Ah, so that's GM's problem! Way too many employees making way too much money with way too many benefits!

Reading comprehension is critical.

US jobs. As in jobs HERE. As in not elsewhere.

This is in no way reflective of GM's productivity or wages.

That said, the average UAW worker does seem to be overpaid and overbenefited, at least in my opinion. And GM does seem to have a layer of bean counters that could be removed and not missed. And the price high/rebate thing I always thought was pure insanity.

GM has lots of problems. Celebrating them and wishing for their demise is not a healthy attitude, however.

Again, buy what you want, but do it with eyes open, rationalization off.

 

Go buy a Chevy Aveo. It's made by Koreans. Or buy a Toyota, made by Americans.
Which makes ya more patriotic?