Other than providing your feelings on the matter, please provide what you feel makes globalization unbalanced. Moreover, what is the truth? There hardly is anything known as the truth anymore.

That's precisely it. Adaptation is the key.

 

We can already see the effects of a deflated empire and "globalization," at least in terms of a lost industrial base. Have any of you ever spent any time in the UK? I have. I wouldn't choose their quality of life over ours.

This is the future we're staring at, barring any massive technological advances (nanotechnology, automation, etc) that takes us towards a post-scarcity future. I work with a lot of companies in the US who are on the cutting edge of technologies like this, which gives me some hope. One of them has just introduced a machine that maps atomic structures of material samples in three dimensions (think of it as one half of the Star Trek transporter). Another makes a machine that allows the manipulation of individual molecules. There are great opportunities here.

However, I wouldn't be BETTING that losing a huge portion of our industrial base in the meantime is good for the country.

And when someone finally blinks, and countries stop buying our debt . . . I sincerely hope all of your investments are not in dollars.

Again, make your choices. Rationalization off.

 

Do me and the US a huge favor...
Move your **** to Russia for 2 years, to China for 2 years, to Cuba for 2 years, to Korea for 2 years, and then to Malaysia for 2 years. Go sample this "wonderful equality" first-hand. If you survive those 10 years (which I doubt you will because your outspoken free speech will have you incarcerated in short order), then come back to this most awesome nation in all the world and tell me what THOSE nations will bring to the party via "globalization".

You demonstrate your naivity and lack of worldly experience in the childish "dream" you described above.

Go dodge some enemy bullets... watch your buddies get shot or blown-up...
watch your house get burned down... have some of your family members dissappear...
Why the f**k do you think Cubans risk their life to come to the US illegally? because they want the world to become more mediocre?!?!

AAAUUGGGHHHH!!! You just flipped by breaker!

Unbelievable - some of you people have NO CLUE how good we have it, and why we should fight to keep it. NO CLUE.

 

That's just it centric, these guys that spew-off about "how good globalization is", and "buy anything from anywhere" have no first-hand "global exprerience". They are probably late-teens or twenty-somethings that read a little blurb in a magazine or they only know what their summer jobs and college jobs let their wallets tell them. Guys like us who travel and actually see what the reall world is like have a different view of what good life is all about.

Arguing with these people is futile... they probably don't have the money to afford a trip overseas to start with, so getting them to undestand (without having the actual experience) is like pushing rope uphill.

We have to keep putting the truth out there though - if ANYBODY will just think twice before they buy those $2-tools at the flea market, we've made a difference.

 

Then what are you saying?



PROVE to me that's it's not. All you guys are saying that it's going to be great but you cannot say how or why. If you ask me, you, nor anyone, can prove it because we've never been in this situation. No one knows what will TRULY happen. Just as easily as globalization could be good, there's just as good as a chance of it being very bad. How can you sit there and say it's going to be good? Again, what PROOF do you have? You are asking us to have blind faith. Sorry, but I don't work by blind faith.



Service jobs do not pay the same as high tech and manufacturing jobs. All these people who had good paying jobs now must sell their houses and buy shacks; they must sell their nice cars and drive rats. Is that fair? Why should all the burden be put on Average Joe Worker? And who's to say these jobs won't be outsourced to cheaper labor? Or any new job that gets created due to new technology. Those jobs will eventually be outsourced, too! And don't say "oh well" or you'll come across as an arrogant SOB.

When we provided the world with most of it's goods, we were THE country. We were a powerhouse that nobody reckoned with. We have proof that it works. History shows that it has. You're right in one aspect about globalization. If we stayed away from it we would crumble. And that's because all the rest of the world would be doing it. The trick is to quash globalization where ever it happens in the world. WE should be providing everything the world needs. It sounds arrogant, but if we want to stay on top, we need to take the necessary steps to insure that.



True, but when a disproportionate amount of debt is owed to other countries, that is VERY bad. Like I asked before, what happens when China and Japan want to be repaid?



And this is exactly why the government NEEDS to be completely divorced from big business. Legislation needs to be passed that competely forbids companies from lobbying, contributing, bribing, whatever you want to call it. And other laws should be enacted to prevent government officials from accepting these bribes, as well.



Sure they are to blame. If they didn't constantly demand lower and lower prices, companies wouldn't be forced to go overseas for cheaper labor. The reason why they need to buy cheap foreign crap is because they're making less. But why are they making less? Because the company can't afford to pay them a good salary. And why can't the company pay a good salary? Because they aren't making a good profit. And why aren't they making a good profit? Because the CONSUMER keeps buying cheap foreign crap.
If people could just realize this, they would see that their fate is in their own hands.
And DO NOT tell me what is made in China is "comparable" to what is made here. That crap isn't nearly the quality of our product.

 

So by that rational ..Globalization will make the U.S. about the same as the U.K. is now..wow thats great...I get it Proud Pony..and Ive never been out of the country..I just have a little bit better idea that the playing feild is very unfair, we play by the rules while the rest of the world undercuts us bigtime..but some people see that as globalization..the rest of the world is about 20 yrs behind in the equality that the U.S. has to go through in producing products..
I guess some want thier cars to be built the same way..

 

YES MY FRIEND... YOU DO UNDERSTAND IT!!!
You just described globalization in one aspect - how it's hit the UK.
You also grasp the fact that 3rd world countries are so corrupt (and typically so antiquated) that they don't typically understand - or care - what dumping waste or black lung does to people. As you said, we play by a high standard of rules in the US or we pay fines/go to jail - they play by few or no rules, are sneaky bastages, and could care less about the environment or people they harm/kill while doing it.

Saddam...
oil-for-food program anyone?
blows-up oil wells spewing tons sulphur-ladden smoke into the atmoshere?
commits genecide against the Kurds because they practice capitalistic trade amongst themselves and have differing views of how to rule?
shoots unguided SCUD missiles randomly towards western Europe?
Vietnam...
dictates what business you can do and with whom?
China...
forces people to register their websites with the government for monitoring?
regulates the number of children you can have, and forces abortion/sterilization if you exceed your alotted quota?
government can mandate how and where business is conducted?
Mexico...
all gas stations and fuel companies are owned/operated by the government?
people are allowed to live in cities of cardboard boxes?

And some on this board actually want to deal with people/governments that operate in this way, want to "level" the playing field, and reduce our standards of living in the US to these levels?!?!

Caps94ZODG - you got it.
Don't let anybody bamboozle you with flowers and perfume... the world is a cruel and unforgiving place - especially outside the US. We are lucky to be living in this sanctuary where freedom lives and positive motivation is rewarded.

 

Thanks 'Pony thats one reason I started this thread in here...to see what people thought of as the next level in the car market..or future of it..



and dont get me wrong..Toyota makes a great car, Honda does too heck even Kia... I will say that, they know how to build cars. By taking our cars back then and learning how to build a great car by tearing ours down and making it better. We lost how to do that. We have figured out how to again, example: now it a hard sell to let everyone know about the Cobalt, who people even here still think is a Cavi redo.


but globalization means a fair trade of products on a fair playing feild.. Japans car companies cash crop is America..they import, build and expand here.
when was the last time you heard about GM building a new plant over in Japan, or Ford being the number one seller in that market or two or three for that fact? Your hard pressed to find any car over there thats foreign, except luxury cars.

If Toyota was shut out of the U.S. they would colapse. Same goes for GM or Ford here. They only thing is Ford and GM are getting the warning signs that it could happen, and I dont mean go under but I mean colapse as a major factor in our way of life, everyone.

Do I buy products that say made in china..yup..can I do anything about it? nope..cus there are thousands of companies that will take over that "widget" imported from China if they go belly up. Can the same thing be said about a car comapny? when was the last time a real car company was made and grew to the size to compete with the other "widets" in the car world. Not going to happen, so cant compare "widets" to cars.

 

The thing is, if the US will not trade with other nations, and will not partake of this globalization, it is bound to become just like Russia (or better yet, the former USSR), just as China some years ago, just as Cuba. That is my point. I am not advocating that globalization is the best thing that happened since sliced bread. I am saying that to ignore it and not participate in it for the US will prove more detrimental.

 

We can/do trade with the UK. We also trade with Canada. Germany. France.
These are typically nations that have a conscience, and they are at or similar to the US in policy. Democracies, capitalism, and trade regulations - all together.

Take France for example... they have taken US-developed nuclear technology and run a totally impressive grid system with almost 100% nuclear power. Do you hear of meltdowns? Nuclear waste issues? Rampant cancer in the countryside of France? NO. Do they dump waste in the Louvre? NO. (Are they arrogant and smelly - yes, but that's another issue... maybe the US can trade some humility and bath fixtures with them. )

There is a prime example of a nation I would set-up trade business with.

Do you know about the Chernobyl incident? THAT is an incident where the old USSR government tried to do things their way, cost-minded, and got busted. The heaviest price paid was by the PEOPLE, living in the countryside that got the radioactive fallout, drank the water, and ate the crops planted in radioactive soil - all known to the government but never disclosed. Not only that, but the government refused to allow outside nations (like the USA and the UK) to come in and study the situation, diagnose the problems, and offer assistance in the clean-up. In short, the elite of the government sacrificed their environmental condition and the health and lives of thousands without any regrets because of their pride, greed, selfishness, and egotism. NOT someone I would consider as a trade partner. If they treat their own population that way, how do you think they would treat YOU?!?!
(Now the USSR has dissolved, and Putin seems to be trying to make their democracy work, so I would advocate trade with the new Russia, (and we are trading with them) but I would monitor it closely as the new system evolves.)

I'm not saying we should trade nothing with anybody.
What I am saying is that we should not trade with any Joe-Blow nation that comes to the party. What's worse, when we refuse to trade with a nation (or we refuse to trade because the terms are unsatisfactory), that nation goes and finds a broker that will take their product, run it through Mexico or Brazil, then turn around and bring it to the US anyways. That frosts my nuts. We know it happens, but we do little or nothing to stop it.

I can go with you to ANY flea market in the USA, and find product being sold - new in the box - that DOES NOT MEET US SAFETY STANDARDS. Quick example - go look for yourself... find an air compressor with no brand name on the box, "Made in China" somewhere on it, and then look for the ASME seal certifying the pressure vessel is safe to operate under given conditions... ... it ain't there. Not only should you not be using it without the seal, but it shouldn't be for sale in the US at all without it. That part circumvented the trade regulations regarding pressure vessels and safety certifications that qualify it to be sold in the US. But hey, you save $50 bucks on a $200 air compressor, right? Just hope it doesn't explode while you are standing beside it inflating your tire.

Oh well, 'nuf for now.
Back to work...

 

Proud... Right on!

 

Step aside Superman, move over Batman...I now have a new favorite super hero: PROUD PONY.

Time for me to chime in...

Apparently, people are not understanding this whole "LEVEL PLAYING FIELD" thing. No one in this post has mentioned excommunicating the rest of the world in the name of a uni-national existence. Instead, it has been suggested that we, as a country, deal with other countries of the same caliper, and more importantly, countries that play by the same rules.

Quickly:

I work for an engineering consultant firm in center city Philadelphia. I design the electrical systems for clients of all different backgrounds. Whether I am designing a new terminal for an international airport or renovating a small town college building, I must comply with:

NEC (National Electrical Code), which is part of the,
NFPA (National Fire Protection Association),
ANSI (American National Standards Institute),
NEMA, OSHA, IEEE, ISO, UBC (or the more restrictive CBC (or others) in some areas of the country), ADA, etc...
And of course just about anything you see in a commercial or industrial building in the USA will be "UL Listed."

Most of the aforementioned codes/associations (and the many unlisted ones) are required here in America, but nowhere else. Sure other countries have other codes, but they are NOWHERE near as strict as ours. Case-in-point: the work I am doing work for a Spanish customer right now.

It is interesting to note, however, that while these codes are not required in other countries, some parts of the world are recognizing them and voluntarily complying with them. These countries are of course other "Class A" countries (Germany, England, France, etc). Lastly, of the companies whose products meet these restrictions, about 90% of them are based in these "Class A" countries (mostly America). I guess that means there are no light switches in China... (And American products are inferior.... )

A building can be built in another country, governed by different codes and still serve the same purpose as the one built over here. But there are inherent (and obvious...I thought) reasons why it is foolish to say that the world is a level playing field.

As far a auto manfucaturers go: Buy whatever you want, but I sure as hell better not hear one slanderous word about the American economy come from your mouth.

Preach on Mr. Pony...

 

I... I... I'm humbled.

I would, but nobody seems to want to continue this debate at this time...
I am reading other threads (and would love to post some) but have reserved my typing time for this thread. I have all kinds of good stuff to bring out if anyone wants to dig deeper... but can't get any nibbles.

Seriously, I don't mean to come across as a smart@ss, but it seems like those who travel abroad, and are involved in manufacturing in any way seem to be the people who realize the perils of losing our standard of living - or more correctly, "sharing" our wealth with developing nations. Going to Acapulco for a vacation is NOT the same as walking through the barrios in Hermosillo, Mexico. Sightseeing in Berlin is NOT the same as sharing dinner with a common machinist working in a shop in Coburg Germany. Dayshopping in Brno, CZ is NOT the same as eating in a breakroom with a machine assembler in Prague's business sector. And in no way shape or form is touring Shanghai in a rickshaw anthing like eating in the breakroom of a manufacturing facility that employs 100,000 people in Kunshan China. When you get out of the limelight of the cameras and tourism districts, there is an ugly truth that often becomes painfully apparent - the common people will share with you if you ask with sincerity.

I love my family, my state, and my nation, and don't want to see any of them have to live in those conditions, under those laws and/or corruption.
Unfortunately, it looks to me like you don't have to move to another nation to experience it these days, it's slowly creeping into our nation bit by bit, law by law, and company by company through policy changes, greed, and political PAC money.

Thanks for your kind words, and for giving yet another valid position from someone technically involved in making things happen the right way in this world.
If more of us will simply keep explaining this situation - with conviction and sincerity - maybe more of the average Joe's will begin to wake-up and see that there is in fact some degree of peril involved in opening your doors to every nations that offers you "a great deal" on something.
I assure you - my resolve will not waiver.

 

Proud Pony maybee no one is responding cus they got owned..and instead of putting up they shut up. At least they could say that your right...cus you are..
I get it cus I actually read beyond the headlines, watch the TV that no ones watches. instead of flipping on American Idol..The story behind the story. How people actualy live in the rest of the world.

If you guys want the world to be equal, I guess the American lifestyle will turn back about 100 years.. yea real great...This is it..Proud Pony said it best..
"Going to Acapulco for a vacation is NOT the same as walking through the barrios in Hermosillo, Mexico. Sightseeing in Berlin is NOT the same as sharing dinner with a common machinist working in a shop in Coburg Germany. Dayshopping in Brno, CZ is NOT the same as eating in a breakroom with a machine assembler in Prague's business sector. And in no way shape or form is touring Shanghai in a rickshaw anthing like eating in the breakroom of a manufacturing facility that employs 100,000 people in Kunshan China. When you get out of the limelight of the cameras and tourism districts, there is an ugly truth that often becomes painfully apparent - the common people will share with you if you ask with sincerity."
example: Step outside of the tourist area of Orlando, Disney and Universal, you still see great cities and towns throughout Florida. no plight no hardship like the rest of the world that you say are playing on the level playing feild??

All I can say is Proud Pony is till you steppin in here people were all jumping on the half *** soapbox called globalization. But I guess no one really knows what is at stake here. America can globalize, but lets lead it not get sucked into it.

 

At several American dealerships, they are giving away bumper stickers that say "Don't Put My American Flag on Your Import"

It's a good idea for sales.