The GTO isn't a Firebird replacement, the same way the SSR isn't a Camaro replacement. The Firebird, according to GM is done, and the GTO isn't aimed at the Firebird owner, its aimed at the newer pontiac buyer, the more upscale buyer. As far as a lowsy replacement?

Let's see:
The GTO offers a better ride, better build, better materials, more room for passangers (front and rear), better handling car, and with an LS2, its more powerful. All this is delivered for the same as a WS.6 would have cost new is 2002. The only thing the Firebird offered over the GTO was a list of options, but let's be honest" For most anyone on this board the only options that mattered were engine, color, seats, and T-Tops. It wasn't like anyone was building a car nothing like anyone else's. The F-Body wasn't a Scion. I guess since the GTO can beat the Firebird in all categories beside looks (which is totally subjective, so not a real win there...), and Options available, Its "lowsy"??!?!?

Good call.

 

its lowsy sales sure... 18k a year, thats phanominal, for an xlr... it doesnt replace the f-bodys sales... with the camaro and firebird combined doing probably 100k a year, 18 is piddly stuff... and to me, the GTO just is plain, nothing really all that makes me wanna have the car, i'd rather have an ls1 f-body its just as fast.

 

Yes, its a piece of ****, and I hope it gets cancelled, If Pontiac doesn't have a Firebird I'd much rather Pontiac not exist, serious.

 

That's an awfully selfish and petty way to look at it.

 

Selfish?

Lets Define Pontiac Shall we?

All According to Pontiac Herritage, Pontaic.com:

1926 Pontiacs first 5 passeger coach

1929 Pontiac has sold 500k units so far...

1932 Pontiac's first coupe and convertable a 302 V8

1933 Pontiac's sales increase by 50% from 1932 by advertising campaigns toward female buyers

1936 Pontiac's 300 employees celebrate 1 millionth car (all employees were present all 9 years)

1937 "The most beautiful thing on wheels" & "Built to last 100,000 miles" were new slogans and they started production of their most expensive vehicle the deluxe eight convertable sedan.

1940 The Torpedo 8 four door sedan and the Special 6 station wagon were introduced

1941 Pontiac makes 6 and 8 cylinder engines avalible on all vehicles and market share jumps to 7.6 and units sky rocket to 330,000

1942-1946 Pontiac stops production to aid the Governement in making rocket bombs

1946 production starts about the same as it did when it left in 42

1948 Pontiac introduces Torpedo Deluxe 8 convertable coupe

1950 Best sales year in automotive history. Super Deluxe Catalina Coupe is introduced

19 okay we are gonna skip a little bit of stuf cause im getting tired... definatly go check it out tho at pontiac.com

okay from about 63 on out, styling and performance got to duke it out as far as priority went, but The Grand Prix was revolutionary, the GTO was revolutionary, but they both lost their flame as the firebird continued its fire well into the 80s and some of the 90s... The firebird was Pontiacs project car, like the vette for chevy, but the gto has little of the old pontiacs grace. the GTO is just a rebadged holden, and if holden was a world renound company I would be buying a holden Corvette, but since its not... it ought to stay in austrailia, because this lackluster styling and mediocur performance is unacceptable by pontiac. the 04 GTO was just as quick as my lt1... and the 05's arent as quick as the ls1's even with an extra 50 horsepower.

GTO has to go, and Pontiac Needs a car that it can be truely in love with, like the solstice, but it needs to be a much larger version, if they can go with a new name, and start a new herritage, Pontiac can do wonders, but the camaro needs a sister in the Pontiac Lineup. I'd like it to be named a firebird, but if its not gonna follow tradition firebird will not be a good nameplate.

 

I would agree with all of that except for the better handling part. It sure didn't feel like it was better handling at least, and the tires that come on it (at least the 04s) are garbage.
The LS2 may make it more powerful, but the fastest I have ever heard one running was in GMHTP, and it turned a 13.2.

 

GTO certainly doesn't have the old Pontiac attitude. I wish they would re-inject some attitude into their cars. What is wrong about a having a car that screams look at me. I still don't understand why it was ever decided to turn Pontiac into an American BMW spinoff. Just let Pontiac be Pontiac.

 

for real, so many companys with they could have been pontiac back in the day, GM had companys others would only dream about, now GM is trying to be like everyone else instead of just being themselves

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

GTO has always looked like other pontiacs. I'd challenge you to prove me wrong, but since GTO was never anything but a badge/hood/engine package on a base model car, there's no point.

And let's not forget, The LS1 firebird has 'look at me' looks. It's sales trend looks something like how emanuel lewis's career. The other cars that the GTO resembles OTOH have fine sales records. hmmmmm, i wonder what's a better model to emulate?

As already said, why do threads about firebird degrade into GTO bash fests?

 

I think it's because, ppl are so pissed the F-bodies are gone, so they take it out on the GTO, and anything else they feel was meant as a replacement for the twins. I agree about the WS6 Birds, and now the GTO is too plain? It's a Catch 22!

 

Dude, I was agreeing (sp?) with you.
Some tool stated the new GTO was simply a Grand Prix with an LSx engine. Basically my point was since the Grand Prix, and GTO cars don't share anything besides styling cues, he couldn't be further from the truth, but in the past, that was a VERY true statement.

 

Really; Camaro and Firebird combined doing 100k a year... 18k is piddly stuff?

I'm no sales expert, but didn't the combined F-Body not even crack 100k in its later years? Does anyone know how many of those sold were the SSes and WS6s? I'd imagine that it was a lot less than 18k. And, because it hasn't been mentioned enough yet (or maybe because everyone's forgotten how history really was) the GTO has never been agressive, unless you call a hood scoop and badge package agressive. Take the glasses off and look again.

 

When did I say that the GTO needs more attitude? I don't believe I did. I think the Pontiac line in general needs more desirable cars. I know the new GTO is way more similiar to the old GTOs than most people seem to either realize or care to admit, but Pontiac does not really have anything that draws attention, besides the Solstice, and now freakin Saturn has a version of it themselves.

 

I know you were agreeing with me, thats why i quoted you. I guess that could have read wrong if you weren't following the thought. i.e. i laughed at the first guy, used your quote to bash him, and then continued with why he made no sense.

 

I still see no reason why the Bird can't come back on a Vette chassis,just Call it a T/A

Would cost be a reason? what did 2k2 Ws6's sticker for?
overlap? serious?

someone please tell me