I still don't think you are understanding what he meant. If the Camaro comes out being the big fatass z284ever is afraid of it becoming, than a Pontiac sister car that is rebadged will have its same large dimensions. The new Camaro could be much akin to the GTO we currently have now, not a sleek Firebird. Why bother putting a Firebird badge on a car that would be better suited to have a GTO badge?

 

why put a camaro badge on a bloated car, call it a chevelle? wasnt the GTO's sister the Chevelle or am I getting my badging wrong?

 

Nope, you are right. Chevelle wasa GTO's sister.

Why put a Camaro badge on a bloated car? That is a good question indeed. Hopefully in the end all of this will have played out to be nothing we should have worried about, like Red has said.

 

Lets not forget the Camaro Berlinetta, dont give them credit until credit is due.

 

And IMO the Chevelle NOT a /large/ car.

 

it takes the same size in the garage as a suburban

nova was smaller, and the camaro was the smallest

 

Doubtful, but it did share the same LARGE engine, 454!..

First, Z/28 is to Camaro, what T/A is to Firebird...some just act as if they're two different cars...?
Second, PRICE is why Pontiac can use a Camaro variant, as in the past...sure the new GTO is small as the older TA's, but for $10K less, there still is a niche for a FIREBIRD too...

 

The Formula is what the Z/28 is to the Camaro to the firebird.

the old TA's where very sleek looking, something the GTO lacks IMHO. I personally wouldnt even put the two in the same category.

 

I think they should just trash the whole Holden GTO thing. Why even attepmt to make a new "camaro" out of that chassis if it already isnt selling. Sure some people will be inclined to buy it just because it says Camaro, but if it turns out to be a flop like the GTO (most likely wont) then where do you go next? If it doesnt go bad, people will still be discoureged about how it performs and it will be a disgrace to the camaro name, just like the new GTO is not in my mind...a GTO. I say trash the GTO chassis, form a new one make the Next Gen in F-Bodies....camaro AND firebird. It cant hurt chevy nor pontiac to have those cars

 

The problem with Pontiac right now is there name have no value in the market they are shooting at. They have become a bland car company which they could have turned around with the GTO which in the beginning had hype around it but the car had the oposite of what the company needed in my opinion. The GTO had performance but they made it way too heavy and the performance didn't match looks. If my friends saw the GTO at a drag strip they would probably say "dang look at that fast Grand Prix". (By the way the Pontiac site does a good job marketing, actually looks very nice)

If they wanted to fit that niche they should have made a more Corvette-like car because with the hype around the GTO name it should have sold pretty good. Would you have tell someone you bought a 400 hp car from Pontiac, a company that has truly been out of the performance game that looks like a sedan or one that looks like a true sports car and carries the GTO name. Personally I do not see any GTO in this current vehicle which sort of ruined the point for some people.

If the Camaro does come back there will be a few problems with bringing the Firebird back. For one the Firebird would have to look a good deal different that the Camaro in order for them to stay out eachothers buyers. I also think if they are going to go with a modern Firebird they should rebadge it anyways because all the revival cars GM has may get out of control. The Firebird name also doesnt carry nearly as large of following as the Camaro name does, theres many people would buy a Camaro if a Firebird didn't come out anyways. Plus, for those that dont know Firebird name previously the name itself is kinda well ya know.

 

You have it backwards. The Camaro is not going to built off the GTO chassis. The possible problem mentioned here is that when the Camaro comes back out to market, its own chassis will promote a car that is as big as the current GTO, and that is why the comment was made, if the GTO is not going to be imported here after 2006 because there is no platform for it, why not just make a new GTO here as a reskinned Camaro, as the dimensions will be similiar to the previous few years of GTO. Hence, z284evers's remark of, why name the Chevy reskin a Firebird, when the GTO would be more earning of that name.

My problem is that, should his doom and gloom somehow turn out to be reality, it does not bode well for the enthusiast's reception of the new Camaro.

 

To each his own. I've always thought the Camaro was uglier!

 

So why is it "better suited" to be a GTO? If you ask me, the GTO name has done nothing in the current market. The traditional GTO fans hate it and the kids can't afford it.

 

or atleast a more Plain look to it... Firebird is something I always thought looked worse until i bought one, then after owning one for 2 years, I'd much rather have a bird over a camaro. even if the Camaro outsells the firebird 3-1 it is still worth it in my mind... give the GM enthusiast some flavor...

The GTO is to a chevelle, what the firebird is to a camaro...

so why offend more people?

Chevelle 70 SS
Height 52.7 inches
Weight 4,000 lbs
Width 70.2 inches
Length 189 inches
Wheelbase 112 inches

67-69 camaro
length 184.6 in
Width 72.3 in
Height 50.5 in
wheel base 108.1 in

4th gen Camaro
Exterior length 193.5"
Exterior body width 74.1"
Exterior height 51.8"
Wheelbase 101.1"

okay so the 4th gen was bigger then the original chevelle? the Chevelle was heavier tho... and the suburban was 219inches long, so neither of them are too far off, but they look the same size in my friends garage...

but the Chevelle / GTO was bigger then the original camaro, it was also heavier and taller... (also had a bigger engine )

 

1. Who on earth said Camaro was going to be based on the GTO?

2. GTO isn't a flop. It's selling at twice the rate the Cobra did. A vehicle sold only in loaded to the gills high performance setup most definately isn't going to sell in high numbers. Cobras ran 9-13K per year. GTO's currently running a 15-18K per year clip.

3. The Holden V-chassis (a evolution of GM's Omega car) is being phased out as Holden's "Zeta" chassis is phased in.

4. GM WILL NOT make a unique chassis for a car that's likely to sell under 100K per year and carry a $20K price tag in base form. Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

1. GTO ain't slow by any standards. ESPECIALLY the 2005 version!

2.Trans Am wasn't Pontiac's "Flagship". The Grand Prix was. The LJ in particular.

3. Anyone pissed off about the GTO being named the GTO in my own experience don't have a clue about GTO's history. A few actually do know some things, but for every 1 I've found there's 100 blowhards who have their heads up their bum-bums.


Actually Chevelle was Pontiac Tempest and then LeMans' sister.

GTO was a engine & trim package on the Tempest & later the LeMans.

The "Bloated Camaro" story should be on Discovery Channel's "Mythbusters". I haven't come across one person who's currently involved or has seen the design or specs that calls it bloated, and Red has come here on more than 3 occasions to discount that. To top it all off, we're going to see the car in about 4 months anyways, so the whole thing should be given a rest till we actually see the thing.


How I think this rumor got started?

Crossed wires. The right hand not knowing what the left was doing. Residual bitterness over a offshore division taking money and doing engineering work that you'd want for your own shop. Old-think GM where some can't comprehend that different coupes appeal to different markets.

Consider these things:

1. Holden was developing a large coupe for GM which would have replaced cars like the Monte Carlo the Holden Monaro.

2. Holden WAS NOT DOING ANY WORK ON CAMARO! It was [color=red]NOT[/color=red] a part of "Zeta".

3. This "sigma-lite" chassis Mark Reuss spoke of as a basis for Camaro is based on the original direction Camaro was going to take before the plug got pulled.

4. The Monte Carlo isn't a "Camaro", yet is slated to be replaced with a large roomy RWD coupe.



It's easy to see how some people might be confused by all this, and think the MC and "Chevy Mustang" would be replaced by the same car, and be a big heavy "pig". But they might not realize:

...that a chassis that might be developed for a big car, could be shortened or narrowed for a "Camaro". The STS is wider than a CTS as well as longer, so it's not at all a strange concept...

...or that while they were working on "Zeta" someone else in another area unknown to him was creating a different "sports bike" and made the "bike" more cost effective...

...or that although "Zeta" was moved back to the end of the decade, one might have missed that much work was done on something else some time ago and was cancelled, but was now pulled out and because of work already done won't take very long to get to market.

.....but then again, I'm just speculating.

I was told at the begining of the year that regardless as to what I read, wait for the dust to settle before forming an opinion.

I see why I was told that.