I'll pour a little gas on the fire:

I spent about 3.5 to 4 hours at the Cleveland Auto Show Saturday....

There was always a small group of people around the Silver Mustang Concept coupe, but nonetheless, it always had some people checking it out... but Ford's display was right at the front of the show at the entrance/exit... prime territory.

The car that was getting by far the most attention and crowd ... was.... ready?? The Cadillac XLR. And the Cadillac Cien (which I was glad to see there) also had a steady crowd. Cadillac's display was on the far back side of GM's display... oddly enough, about as far as you could get from the entrance/exit of the show and still be in GM's display.

I did several loops of the floor to get a look at the crowds a few times...

 

Please accept the following quotes from some of my "associates" as evidence aligning my position on my previous post about 04 Mach 1 existance... (in other words... here's what my inside bro's are saying!)

"The 04 Mach 1 which has been rumored will be merely a continuation of this production model. I.E. no motor or transmission or suspension changes. I received this information about two months ago. "He" hinted at the possibility of a few more colors being available but no definates on what those might be. "

"There have been a couple of people here who got mail/email from Ford executives for other reasons, but those replies included mention that the Mach I will be continued for 2004. "

I have it that the '04 will happen, in just about the same quantities and style as the '03 did. The question falls on the '05 models... BOSS or MACH 1 for '05? That's what leads me to researching the BOSS for '05... it's a nicer "fit" for the body style change and new model rollout IMO.

PS - Ude, where'd ya get dem pics!!!! Did YOU snap those? Was that a warehouse clearance sale or what!?!?

 

Proud Pony,He got those pics at stangnet.

 

Aight, maybe he is not a moron. BUT, I feel any complete retro design on a car like the Camaro, M*stang, Corvette, or any cars that really mean something is moronic. These are cars that set the example of what coolness and fun should be in automobiles in the U.S. and even other countries for that matter. Retro is unoriginal and goes in the wrong direction designwise, and we've seen how it gets percieved and critisized after a while. It should be saved for specialty cars that it might actually serve a purpose on, like the F*rd GT for instance. IMO this is a place where he should have been original and modern. I am ALL for cues and ties to what makes a car what it is, but with some new also.

Examples: Third Gen Camaros, the current M*stang, C4 and C5 Corvette's. They are cars that used new design ideas but kept ties and cues to what makes the car what it is and was. What did that result in for them?? Excellent sales and popularity because they looked ahead and back for their designs, which is the way it should be. It is inspirational and creates success.

There were alot of people that cared about the Camaro in GM for years and there are some now, more than when the 4th Gen was in production. It seemed that the guys in charge just didn't care then. So hopefully we won't see BS like that ever again. But the "contract" still has something to do with it all too. I'm talking about there being no 5th Gen ready to take over after the 4th Gen. ProudP, I appreciate being able to discuss things normally with you and some others as usual.

 

I think they were more impressed with the publics interest in a mid-size musclecar, which they don't have, and makes them see that the Camaro is worth it. Retro always has alot of fans at 1st, but that goes away after a while quickly. The "every1 I talk to people" would be friends, (who are and aren't car people) and dudes from cruise nights and car shows. I think alot on here (not all) who say that they are interested in the 05 is because its a musclecar and alot know that GM reads these boards and wanna show how much they are intersted in it so GM will bring back the Camaro. Look at all the "forget you GM" or "since you won't build a Camaro" comments in those posts. They are obviously to trying to get GM going already and they know they'll go right back to GM as soon as a 5th Gen is announced or not buy an 05 at all.

 

Boy one thing your good at is saying something to get yourself pumped.

You are one restless camaro guy.I can see you still complaining in 5 years

 

I don't know where from they came, but I know this...

I'd shave the family jewels on Springer's show for one of those to go in one of my Muskrats...

It's not gonna set the world on fire or anything, but I really think that this "new" BOSS motor (if handled right by Ford with aftermarket support, internal parts by FRPP, and some racing exposure) could be as revolutionary and legendary as the 302/5.0 was.
At least until we get fission-propulsion in the car anyways...

 

Of course! You are on to us!! The ONLY reason anyone here would possibly say they like the new Mustang, or think it looks great is because we want GM to bring back the Camaro, and NOT because it actually is a great or even good design. And those GM executives and designers would never ever praise Mustang's design. They were just prasing the crowd it attracted.

I'm not trying to slam or flame you, but really listen to what you're saying. You're comming across as someone with a desparate case of denial. Not personally liking the Mustang is fine. Denying that people who say they like Mustang's new style and actually mean it comes across as pretty pathethic. I know that isn't what you are trying to do. Just realize because others have different views than you (and you are obviously in the minority on Mustangs new look) doesn't mean they are wrong & you are right. It happens all the time. I'm probally in the minority believing the new Mustang's NOT retro. I accept it, and move on.

You are right about Mustang getting GM's management pumped for Camaro (at least the ones that count), but think about what you are saying about retro design. You are saying sales are graet at 1st, and then peter out. My friend, ALL designs do that.

The Mustang II sold over 300,000 cars the 1st couple of years, the gen 4 F-body sales collapsed after 4 years, Probe 1, 2, & 3 (Cougar) were very successful cars in the begining, as are seemingly every Japaneese sports car attempt. None were retro, all petered out after initial success.

Retro is like every other design in that there are good designs that endure, OK ones that don't, and those what were you thinking designs (see Aztek). The Mini is Retro done right. The Thunderbird is retro done wrong (mostly due to the grill).

Mustang by all means looks like it's going to be a run away success. Retro or not, and regardless as to the people you talk to. And it won't be a "girls" car anymore.

 

And I disagree with you on this. Theres lots of stuff we agree on such as Z28 and I think the GTO, but not here. I am not changing my view on this. We'll see how things go in a few years.

 

No need to change your view (we need some differences to keep things interesting around here ).

 

Of course.

 

The Mini isn't retro.

 

... and neither is Thunderbird, damn it!

 

Really, the Mini isn't. It was the replacement for the last Mini, which remained in production until shortly before the new version. There was a gap because the new one wasn't ready in time. It looks like the model it replaced... like a new honda accord looks like its predessor. See... not retro.

 

Hello Callers!!!
Welcome to the Frazier Crane Show!
So we've arranged this digital forum today to discuss dimentia and denial, and how they relate to development of future vehicles. How interesting!
I'm listening...