I don't disagree that price/availability should be a consideration but I don't find the price/availability of the GT-R to be as out of reach as some make it out to be.

It is expensive (from my viewpoint) and it is a bit "rare" (which, frankly, is one of its "positives" in my opinion); but, as I pointed out above; it's MT's award and MT's criteria and MT's decision.

 

Oh, well . . . in that case I'll never question them again. My bad. I'll go back to my room now.

 

If you don't feel you have to justify it why do you have 26 posts in this tread defending it?

 

Still dancing I see.

One might ask why you felt the need to bash it?

If you bother to actually look I have more than a few posts in this thread that don't "defend" the GT-R and more than a few that don't even have anything to do with either the GT-R or the COTY; but yes, I do defend the GT-R; especially against those who bash it for the pure enjoyment of bashing it and against rumors and outright inaccuracies.

 

What exactly am I dancing around?

Also, I don't remember "bashing" the GTR once in this thread. I simply pointed out that the Cadillac did deserve it, and the in my opinion the Genesis would have been a better choice.

 

Dancing around as in completely ignoring the inconsistency of claiming, in your initial post, that the GT-R shouldn’t have been chosen because it isn’t “main stream” based on its price and the claiming a day later that it was really all about production numbers and then continuing to do so by trying to change the subject by mischaracterizing all my posts in this thread as “defending” the GT-R.

Perhaps claiming that the GT-R isn’t main stream enough (whatever basis for main stream you want to use now) isn’t “bashing” but calling your prior comments “bashing” is no more inaccurate than claiming that all my posts have been about defending the GT-R.

I really don't care if the Cadillac deserved the award last year or not but if your argument is based on price, as it clearly was at the beginning, it should have been eliminated from consideration last year just as you claim the GT-R should have been this year.

 

In my opinion if MT was going to pick a sports car, it should have been the ZR1. GM has never made a faster, better handling car. It's faster than most Ferraris and Porsches. The only thing faster on "the ring" is the new ACR Viper (though we all know to take "the ring" with a grain of salt). I have no quarrels with the GT-R (except for the fact it doesn't have a manual tranny), I just feel the ZR1 is a much better car

 

Funny how the G8 is faster though, with LESS horsepower. Are you really going to bring in ricer math? What's groundbreaking about the Genesis? I can't even tell it apart from a Lexus/Acura/Infiniti. So it's the best because you woudn't expect it from a Hyundai? With that logic then I hope the Grand National won COTY in '86 and '87. Not to mention the G8 you can get with a stick now AND it's 10,000 less then the Genesis.

 

In my original post I used mainstream thinking you would understand that ment both price and availiblity. I then tried to clear that up later, not sure how I can make it any more clear? Perhapse an interperative dance would clear things up for you?

How does saying a 77K car is too exspensive also make a 36K car too exspensive?

 

If your “main stream” thinking is making things up as you go along then you are right, I’ll never understand no mater how many dances you do.

Your original thread was all about pricing - apparently you have a difficult time distinguishing between “clarifying” a point and completely changing a point.

Pricing and production numbers are two very, very different issues and bringing one into the discussion out of left-field a day later isn’t “clarifying” anything; it’s changing the substance of your argument.

While we are on the subject, it’s interesting the you find it appropriate to decide for MT what it should base its COTY award on…if MT wanted to include production numbers for vehicles, it could easily do so but apparently chose not to.


Obviously you are confused…I already addressed that earlier…

Perhaps you missed it while you were busy "clarifying" your argument.

 

Why is it so hard to understand when reffering to a car being "mainstream" I include in both price and availiblity? If MT isn't going to use mainstream (meaning reasonable price and readily availible, don't want to loose you) cars then why didn't the Ford GT or the Veyron win COTY?

Interesting side note: Nissan doesn't even consider the GTR mainstream as on their website under all cars and trucks they don't even list it.

 

Ricer math…what’s that exactly?

In any case, if you really can’t tell the difference between the Genesis and a Lexus, Infiniti or Acura then you aren’t looking very closely. Then again, that is somewhat the point with the Genesis; it competes favorability with other luxury cars at a much more mild price and it comes from a company and a country not know for that up until now.

As to the G8; I’m not up on my Pontiac numeric nomenclatures these days but is the G8 supposed/intended to compete with luxury sedans such as those from Cadillac, Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, etc.??? If it isn’t so intended then why compare it with the Genesis?

One more point, the Grand National wasn’t (or at least shouldn’t have been) a surprise to anyone who knew Buick’s history.

 

It isn’t hard to understand. My point, which you keep missing (either intentionally or because you just can’t understand it) is that you keep changing your argument.

First, only “price” was mentioned as your definition of “main stream” then you changed it to “production numbers” and then it became “availability” (perhaps you think production numbers and availability are interchangeable terms?).


Do you know for certain if MT uses or doesn’t use your ever-changing definition of “main stream” in its determination for COTY?

Perhaps rather than arguing about what “main stream” is or isn’t; you might investigate what MT’s definition is and whether or not they care when it comes to their COTY award.

It’s really difficult to keep up with your mental gymnastics…now I guess we are defining “main stream” based on how a manufacturer positions or doesn’t position a particular vehicle on the web?

 

So Robert do you have any point or are you just in here trolling? You claim not to be defending the GTR or justifying MT's pick for COTY, which leaves only trolling as your motive. Well, unless you really enjoy argueing over my deffinition of "mainstream".

My argument hasn't hasn't changed, I've simply tried presenting in different fassions. 1500 produced = 1500 availible

My comment on their lack of mentioning the GTR under all cars and trucks was just sometihng I found odd when trying to show the vast difference in MSRPs of the two. Which proved fruitless as I couldn't find any MSRP for the GTR on Nissan's website.

 

Perhaps you should check your short-term memory; I didn’t say I didn’t/don’t defend the GT-R; in fact I said I did, I also said your characterization of all my posts in the thread as defending the GT-R was wrong which it was.

As for my motivations, seven yeas and 1,800 plus posts here ought to provide you with insight into my motivations if you bother yourself to actually look.

I’m not arguing with your definition…how can I argue with something that constantly changes.

Sure it hasn’t hasn't.


Ok…so your argument hasn’t changed.

Let’s see; one post ago you said that…

Apparently adding website placement as yet another criteria to what constitutes your definition of "main stream"

Now you claim you only said that because you found it “odd”.

But your argument hasn’t changed.

Ok…whatever.