How 'bout by starting with a 2800 (or less) lb. Solstice Coupe?

Wait, the 4th gen was 3400, why should we assume 3450 at the LIGHTEST? With appropriate emphasis on keeping the weight down, I see no reason why they couldn't realistically get to 3200 or less. As has been mentioned before, it's a question of the WILL to make it a priority or not. I think it would be GREAT if they could turn the tables on the mustang, which used to weigh ~200 less than the Fbody before they (wrongly IMO) went down the mod-motor path.

Of course those are among the LEAST desirable Camaros now. Though in 1979, as a wee lad in 6th grade, a black with orange/red stripes Z28 was my favorite car!

When you're on the track with other cars, faster is faster. Faster passes slower. Besides, street car vs. street car is apples to apples anyway. Street car vs. trailered race car is apples to oranges. To me anyway.

And if boulevard cruising is your thing, that's great, too! But I think it better that the car be designed for the track, and still be cruise-worthy, rather than be designed for the boulevard, and be too overweight be able to defend its honor on the track.

Yup, it's too bad.
The fact is, with advances in design and analysis tools, materials, etc. it IS possible to make a reasonably light car that still meets all modern standards. It is a question of the WILL to do so. Nissan lacked the will, and built their 350Z on a luxury/sport sedan platform, so it weighs 3300 lb. (BLEH!). Had they built it on the 240sx/Silvia platform, no doubt in my mind they could've made it 2800 lb. Similarly, GM has the opportunity (at least I *think* they do) to build the Camaro on a smaller car (Solstice) platform and keep the weight down, rather than building it on a larger car platform which will surely mean a 3600 lb. Camaro. To those who WANT a heavy-weight Camaro, I say your car is already here, the GTO.

GM has a huge opportunity here to make a GREAT car. A LANDMARK car.
But they will blow it. Figure gas is likely going to be over $5.00/gal by the time it comes out, imagine a 3000 lb. Camaro that gets over 30mpg, vs. the lard-*** Mustang. It would have better performance in all aspects, and better economy. But they will blow it and have a 3600+ lb. guzzler that will arrive just as market demand evaporates completely.

OK, OK, enough gloom and doom from me, it's martini time!

ttfn,

 

I don't know Mike. If GM invested the money, time and energy to make a 3,700 lbs car feel like a much lighter car....all I'd think about is how AWESOME it would drive if it weighed 3,400 lbs.

 

...and how much the consumer is WILLING to pay... How many people want to spend $10K more on an "affordable" performance car to shave off a few hundred pounds by use of some new age materials? No thanks... Besides, the Camaro has never been about being a "light" car. A Camaro anywhere near the Solstices' dimensions would be a travesty.

 

Hence the issue. I get the general feeling that no matter what GM produces in the next Camaro, a great number of the "enthusiasts" here will be dissapointed and end up not buying the car.

 

Charlie, notice that I worded my second attempt differently. There was no 3700lbs. -I asked if a Camaro came in weighing anything more than a number that you thought to be appropriate, yet still performed all the tasks listed way back in my first post, would you not purchase the car based solely on the fact that YOU believed that it weighed too much?-

I'm trying to gather just how close the projected weight of the actual car must come to your vision of what it should be in order to make or break a sale. 300 pounds? 200lbs? 50lbs?


-Mike

 

Light weight should be DESIGNED IN, rather than ADDED ON. If you try to lighten an existing car, prepare to spend some bucks. But if the car is designed to be lightweight with conventional materials and manufacturing, lighter weight means it could actually be CHEAPER.

More so, a modern Camaro that is anywhere near the GTO's weight will be a travesty. Solstice isn't that small, btw. A 2+2 version would be pretty much Camaro-sized.

 

Amen to that. Some, it seems, have a set of pretty wild notions or personal constraints. I imagine the same will happen with the new GTO.

 

and I take it the emphasis should be on the word "HERE".........

Quite frankly, I think most Camaro Enthusiasts would....assuming we work on a new Pony car would be pleased.

Remember.......we're talking 'affordable performance' here. As to Solstice, I'm not an engineer.....but I don't see how you could do a 4 seat V8 car off of that platform for anyone of any height........

 

Yep. FORGET about all those other cars out in the world. We're going to make ours out of transparent aluminum!
Could it be... due to the relatively WEAK ENGINES of the day? hmmMM?
Not necessarily. I'm dismayed you'd make such an absurd generalization.
I like taking my Formula to dragstrips, that's my thing when I have a little time. I'm no good at it but it's still fun once or twice a year. But I'm not bummed the car isn't designed just for that. Not enough people would buy a new GTO if it were designed just for drag racing, just as an example. It has to offer utility too. It takes weight to offer space and utility. Oh why do I bother explaining this...
Wow. Maybe it is time for a martini. In fact let me guess... the glass is already half empty

Well my world is a little different. I look forward to the new GTO on the way. I believe it will follow in the best traditions of GM. It will be aggressive and distinctively styled. Big enough for a few folks to enjoy together (yes, some of us do consider motoring a social experience, instead of a constant Mad Max style duel to the bitter end); but not so big that impressive performance is unattainable. It will have GM's latest powerful but fuel-efficient powerplant, with a wonderful V8 song in its exhaust warning limp lightweight sport imports within a two-block radius to look away and hide. It will have modern luxuries but not be lost in them. And it will be laying down the smack on all the torque-deficient econoboxes around

 

I really can't answer that, too theoretical for me.

Cars ARE going to get heavier soon, that's for sure. I don't have any one specific arbitrary number that might make it or break it. What I want is to see is an effort....a concerted focus.... to try to reduce mass.

Look at Dave Hill. I'll admit, that he's not a big friend to the F-car or it's community. But man is that guy focused when it comes to Corvette. The C6 is both smaller and lighter than the C5, because Dave Hill had the sheer WILL to make it happen. And as a result we have a better Corvette.

Camaro deserves the same focus.

 

I agree that the safety regulations and content that is expected in new cars will make it a challenge to reduce weight. If you notice however, most of the people asking for a lighter car are also asking for a smaller one.

If you have to meet all of the regulations and still have all the bells and whistles that people expect, the best way to reduce weight is to make the car smaller.

Why can’t it be smaller? What is so magical about the mustang’s size that says the Camaro has to be the same?

 

the sales figures

 

Yes, I am talking about the people who post on these websites. Most people will neither know nor care about many of the specifics being discussed on this forum, so long as the car looks great, drives terrific, and isn't a completely blatent copy of the Mustang (which would fail after being panned by the media).

Charlie is correct in saying that he, and many of us here, are highest tier enthusiasts for this car. However, this enthusiasm borders on a fanatasism that makes us very unrepresentative of the larger marketplace. In a way, we're similar to say, Star Wars geeks. If you ask around, the strongest, most critical opinions regarding the new movies come from the crazed fans who already had a well fleshed out opinion of what the movies should have been. Most of the movies' audience just wanted to see a well acted, entertaining film, and didn't care if it explained how Princess Leia remembers her mother while Luke does not (damn that discontinuity!!! ).

So along those lines Red, just make sure the Camaro has a bit of Han Solo's bravado, Luke Skywalker's heart, and Queen Amidala's beauty and the car will be great!!












I'm not a nerd. Really I'm not!

 

Yep... and the profit. The Mustang is a hit and it's not just the gorgeous styling. It's also the right SIZE. It has 2 inches more rear legroom than the 02 Camaro. Not much... but JUST ENOUGH to make the rear seat a "real" seat. The rear seat folds, unlike the 05 GTO. It's a 'usable' 2+2.

 

I am just curious, is this site really that extreme? This site clearly covers a wide range of opinions as to what a new Camaro should be. I would expect with all the feedback you get, surely there are others out there that want similar things.

Is the issue truly that we cover new ground with our wants, desires and opinions or is it that there is so much inconsistency for such a small group?