Interesting that it's got a shorter wheelbase but still hefts that much weight around. I too hope Pontiac doesn't screw the great styling of that car up. :blah:

 

So why is the LS2 detuned in these cars? Or is Holden just underrating them. It doesn't make since since the '05-'06 GTO had 400hp.

 

the ls2 isn't used by Holden, it's only used in the HSV models. The L98 is the motor in the standard commodores

 

Guy... how does this generation handle compared to the previous generation of Holden cars?

 

Yes, but note that both Toyota and Nissan have dropped their automotive inline 6s. Apparently the arguments for the V6 were more compelling?

 

Likely from a production and packaging standpoint, rather than a vehicle dynamics/NVH standpoint. A case of the manufacturer doing whats easier, rather than better. Probably saves some coin as well, something thats more important in Toyoissan's market, unlike BMW.

 

Right.

I've mentioned this before, but if you want to get a large displacement to compete in today's power wars (300hp sixes), you need 3.5+ liters displacement. An inline 6 that large would be long, tall, or both. Couple that with various crash regulations that require crush space, and you'd need a long hood.

BMW got around this with twin turbos, a rather expensive solution, but since they only play in the luxury market, they can get the price they need. Also the I-6 is an essential part of the BMW DNA, more than for any other car maker.

Interestingly, it looks like Jaguar will also be going to an I-6 (a variation of Volvo's new engine). The Volvo engine isn't competitive on HP/TQ numbers with other new six cylinder engines. They'll presumably use a turbo also.


Now, if you're Toyota (or GM), you need a big V6 for the family cars. For Cadillac or Lexus, you can add a little technology to the engine and get a bit more power for a bit more money. If you developed a completely different inline 6, you'd spend a lot more development $$$ and need a new plant, and then you'd have to go up against the competition's 3.5l V6 engines with a smaller I-6. So then you'd need to spend even more money on some sort of turbo solution. Ouch!

 

That actually sounds like a good plan. Jag used I6s for quite a while, until at least the last XJ series. I would like to see what kind of power they are planning on putting out before condoning it though, Jag needs some big hits in order to stay relevent.

 

The I6 WAS Jag's DNA -- "XK" was originally the code for their hi-po straight six, first introduced in the early '50s -- until Ford arrived.

And I agree totally with what MissedShift said -- V6 is a LOT easier to package, though less fun to drive.

 

hmm, back in 94-96 the Caprice came standard with a 4.3L V8 instead of the V6 that made almost the same power and torque. That little motor was not used in any other vehicle before or since.

Today GM has the LY7 4.8L V8 that could easily be competitive with the competition's 6 cylinders. I just noticed from the GM Powertrain website that the Gen4 4.8 has picked up 10hp and 10tq (it was 285hp/295tq, now 295hp/305tq) over the Gen3 4.8L. A Gen5 version that uses a "car intake", swaps to the 5.3L's aluminum block, adds VVT and AFM and might as well throw in E85 capability combined with the 6 speed automatic's much wider gear range would make for an awesome entry level drivetrain for any RWD vehicle. Caprice, impala, Camaro, G8, GTO, whatever!

Zero changes would need to be made to the induction system, exhaust system, all the wiring, spring rates, shock dampening, wheel&tire load rating, cooling system hose routing, etc. between one of these motors and a 400+hp model. How much time do you think it takes to figure out the suspension settings for a single model? Now change the weight distribution and total weight and you have to start all over. I believe that is why the Caprice got the 4.3L L99 V8 instead of the 4.3L Vortec V6.

 

I'm not Guy, but every Aussie I've spoken with says "Better. Much better". The IRS in the VZ was quite...crude, by today's standards, and things like the GTO's fluid-filled radius rod bushings (fail frequently), strut mounts (collapse quite often), fluid-filled front struts (usually toast by 25k miles) don't help.

The GTO, for all of its faults, is a real driver's car. When people get behind the wheel, they forget about all of the whining about the styling and enjoy the drive. Even moreso if you replace the stock suspension components with Whiteline/Noltec or Pedders...

The VE's are supposed to be even better. I can't wait, not for Chicago, where I'll be there on opening Saturday checking it out in person, but for late next fall, when we'll actually get the opportunity to drive them...