About that $1.3B.................


http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...a01-219783.htm

 

Are you seriously asking this question? This is a first I think on this message board. A Japanese retro Since most Japanese manufacturers barely had cars in America in the 50's and 60's, it would be difficult for them to have anything to go back to. Even if they did a retro from Japan, how could we tell? No, there won't be any retro Japanese cars from that time period, but who knows when they might do one of a 90's model in ten or twenty years.

 

Plenty would....but I wouldn't.

 

RIGHT ON!!! On ALL counts.

 

A little anime fan told me that the two scion models, mostly the ugly one, were supposed to be "retro" designs. Not that they were ever made before, but that's what cars used to look like.

 

After picking up the issue today, I can see why Scott says the article did no one any favors. Also see how it could have burned some bridges. We all would have loved a rip-roaring send off in 2002 but the Photo/caption calling the 35th Anniversary package a "whimper" was probably taken personally by Scott and anyone who busted their rumps to get the budget they did for the car.

I think the article's existence places the future use of the Camaro name in more doubt/jeopardy than otherwise would have been. The article will certainly do more to get the attention of a possibly more aloof CAW, Canadian, Quebec, and Ottawa Govts than the abscense of the article.

What's in our favor are two things: 1. Nothing can be built at the plant anymore since it doesn't exist anymore. 2. The loans, etc. must be paid off whether there is a new Camaro or not. So rationally there's nothing really standing in the way for Camaro now, but I"m sure there are layers of legal nuance we can't really understand at this point.

 

In 2001, did anyone here predict an IMPREZA and a LANCER would turn the American performance car scene on its ear???????



I wouldnt exactly say those two cars turned the performance car scene on its ear. Not even close really. I'm not really into this retro/not retro thing, I just want a good looking RWD V8 CAMARO. Notice I didnt say Chevelle because I dont want a Chevelle.

 

off the top of my head........

SS owner is 41 years of age (notice I said owner....not driver....there's that insurance issue......) 70% male.....HH income of about $60K. V6 owner drops to 34......about 60% male with HH income of $45K........

Corvette is about +80% male....HH income of well over $100K.........

Mustang.....overall is 65% female...age is 36....HH income of $44K.......V8 bumps the male percent to about 60%.

(that's the numbers I recall from the last buyer behavior report at the end of 2002.........)

Now...about that age thing.....as most of you know, the insurance on a Camaro and a Mustang ain't cheap........thus, you find that the car is titled in one name....(the parent in some cases) and driven (essentially owned) by the son or daughter.....

 

Nissan could do a retro Datsun Z.

 

a couple of thoughts....

First...1FastDog...you make some very compelling points....and I do appreciate all you do for the community!

Second....I think the new Mustang styling is great...but that front end has to be an aerodynamic nightmare.........(not that I'm an aerodynamic engineer...but in my limited experience, I think it is....)

I believe that the next car has to have "I GOTTA HAVE ONE RIGHT NOW" styling. I also believe that the next car has to be class leading in terms of HP/Handling/Braking/straight-line acceleration/top speed (which means sustained high speeds on the autobahns of europe........) RWD and V8 are a given...without 'em, call it a Monza or something else......

To do that, I think aerodynamics plays a huge part....furthermore, aerodynamics also helps get the great gas mileage that the 4th gen LS1 powered cars enjoy. (you'll find that most get 25+...up to 30mpg on a long trip...that's pretty damn good esp. when you look at what some "economy" sedans get.........)

Now...I also believe that you can have a very aerodynamic body with 'highlights' that allow you to know that the car is unmistakeably Camaro.......and done right, you should be able to see all 4 generations when you look at it long enough.....in my opinion, that's great design.

Case in point......the new Corvette looks like a Corvette....yeah, some don't like the headlights..but from a side profile and from the rear and from a 3/4 front shot, there's no question what you're looking at........

But when you get up close and personal, you'll see (and you have to see it in person..not a picture) there are definite styling cues that remind you of Corvettes past.....such as the roof character line in the removable roof panel...very much like the "into the roof" door opening of the 1963-67 era.

Many of you have heard me say "I wouldn't want to repaint the Mona Lisa"..and by that, I guess I mean that the 1969 Camaro was (and is) a beautiful car. (don't believe me? go try to buy one.....prices are just stupidly high....) Now......I think you'd get into real trouble trying to pull that one off....(meaning redesign the 1969 Camaro) ..yup, I've seen many works of art here on this site as well as many others...and my hat is off to many of you. But I don't see it as feasible not only from bumper standards and things such as "where are the windows going to go when you put 'em down???" -- and again, a front end that is as aerodynamic as a brick....... (a standard lightbar on the top of a B4C slows the top speed substantially....wind drag!!!)

Soooo.........while all this talk is good....you still need to be able to pass all federal safety/crash/CAFE/Emissions standards....be able to build it to come in at the right price point.......AND.....appeal to a wider audience that says "OMG....I'VE GOTTA HAVE ONE OF THOSE AND I HAVE TO HAVE IT RIGHT NOW!!!!"..........

As you can see......we have our work cut out for us, no matter what the car is called.

Now....again.....have faith.......but in the final analysis, there are some things that should not be printed. And the article did not help anyone.....and I DO MEAN ANYONE...................................

 

I wonder if thats why we haven't seen Guy here in about a week?

 

You said it!

Maybe it didn't, but I really think letting the public know the truth after all this time could've been a good thing. I was getting tired of hearing people who don't know anything tell me in person why the car is gone, when they really had no clue, even when I explained it to them.

 

This is the case with me. I am insured as the primary driver of my 99 SS but the title is in mine and my parents name(insurance reasons). My parents are both 51 years old and I can't get either one of them to even drive my car (barely get them to ride with me). The point is the car was something I wanted not my parents, and while I will still be buying Camaros when I am in my 30's and maybe 40's but only because I was lucky enough to have one as my first car (89 RS). I hope that the target market is more like the 20-30 than 30-40 because there are only so many thirty to forty year olds who will put up with the things that I love about my camaro. I hope that we don't just hand over the youth market to the japanese manufacturers because we won't get them back. The cobalt isn't gonna cut it either (although it is a nice small car I don't think many people will fall in love with it like I did my first Camaro).

Anyways enough of that.
GM willing I'll be buying a brand new 2009 CAMARO SS (gotta keep my pattern going).

 

I doubt the Cobalt "wont cut it" as it looks to be a great car for its market. Interior looks top notch and looks to keep up with the Lutz-Era interiors now and they seem to get better and better. It should fair well in the sport compact market as well.

2 days ago, I walked into a Chevy dealer looking at the Malibu Maxx. Lots of people might not like the design of the front end and the "bug eye" head lights or the chrome bar, but in a nice black, it looks good to me. So I put pen to paper and got one and I am soooooooo damn happy I got one. In a way, this car was a "got to have" for me because it had what I wanted in it for a great price. I love everything about it so far, from the seats, to the quality, to even the looks. Its my first new car, and for a 20 year old, I am proud to have my first new car under my name. I did lease the car, as I hope that by 08 (4 yrs from now), I will be going back in to the dealer to pick up my 08 or 09 Z28 in red. I hope I am not dissapointed by design, which I why I have 1000000% faith in the FbodyFathers words.

 

If this is as "retro" as the F5 gets, then I'll be happy.

I've never had problems with "cues" or "hints" to the past models (especially the one directly preceeding it, because it ties it into the family as a Camaro...)

But there is a huge difference between something like this and what has been put forward here and on other sites as a potential design theme for the 5th Gen...

One final comment... When you say "and done right, you should be able to see all 4 generations when you look at it long enough.....in my opinion, that's great design." ... the only thing I fear is a "Frankenstein effect" where it looks all tacked together. I guess the key wording here is "when you look at it long enough" because, if it slaps you in the face because it's so obvious... that's where I think it gets sticky for a lot of people.