This will go a long way towards helping fund thier pension fund....especially considering the killing of a deal GM got on it. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._hughes_dc_12. If GM can use this money to fund the pension fund it may free up the few billion they orginially had planned to use....making a Camaro's future look much brighter

 

Bad Link...

I read this on The Car Connection, though:

The good thing is they brought some additional cash in, the bad thing is they dragged their feet so long, it looks like they lots BILLIONS they could have had.

 

This will have little to no effect on the future of a Camaro... either a business case is made & it's approved or it isn't.

As I've mentioned before, the auto industry isn't affected by every little economic hiccup or temporary dips and spikes, but by market trends & regulations, which are dealt with many years in advance.

When GM delayed the C5 and slowed down it's new car programs 10-12 years ago, it was because it was operating at major losses that threatened to bring the company to bankruptcy. Ditto Ford of last year. GM is in no such position (by a long shot!!), and at this moment, neither is Ford or Chrysler. Ford has even restarted development on their RWD sedan!

The industry just finished giving input to the government on safety and emissions regulations covering everything till 2009, and typically does their market forcasting up to 5 years in advance. Anything that's comming out for the 2007 model year is already locked in, and soon GM will start looking at the 2008 model year.

If every little thing determined what and when new vehicles would be made, we'd never have any new cars!

 

Automakers show restraint in development spending in bad economic times. The new Camaro is a luxury...there are many more important things...like paying the pension fund that come first on the ledger. Any extra income helps...especially since I don;t think Hughes was profitable....I am probaly wrong there though.... But if it made money why would GM wanna sell it?

You must not talk to the same people I do...the economy has a huge effect on what GM approves and doesn't. if the economy is looking down...they are much more cautious about outlaying alot of money for development. If the economy looked better I am almost positive a new Camaro would be approved right now. I was at one point told point blank that the Camaro was looking bad for 200X and if it didn't look better soon with the war and all 200x was also in question. This chunk of money they are getting for Hughes will go a long way towards offsetting the huge pension deficit that they have and free up a few billion dollars.

 

It's just another chapter in the ongoing shedding by GM of non-core assets. Detroit Diesel, Hughes Electronics, EDS, Delphi, GM Defense, and now the remainder of Hughes.

That's pretty much it, there's not much else to sell now that Allison has combined with Powertrain.

 

Branden is dead on.

This is a huge deal for the future of GM and the security of new vehicle funding.

I see this as a very good sign.

(BTW: GM still owns part of Dephi, but spun the company off)

 

I probally need to clear up what I'm saying a bit.

Of course more cash helps the company, and the more money a company has, the more it can do. What I'm saying is that any windfall GM gets today from selling off assets isn't going to affect any cars currently approved or under development. GM isn't going to say, OK, we just got an extra $X Billion dollars, now we can go ahead & make car "Y" which is comming out in 24 or 36 months.

Sure, if the economy is looking down, money gets conservative. GM's biggest headache however is not the economy or it's projected sales. It's that massive pension fund Rick Wagoners is trying to deal with. Any surplus money GM gets is going towards that. If anyone's interested, I can dig up the report, and post it here.

That's why I said simply recieving this money doesn't boost the chances of a Camaro (it's problems went FAR beyond just money). If it's comming before 2008, it's already approved & pretty much already funded. If it isn't, then I'll agree with you that this will have a direct influence on Camaro or anything else designated for 2008 and beyond. Of course, if GM ends up in a pinch again, then money will be taken from lower priority projects that are already underway to.

In short what I'm saying is that all else being neutral, extra income doesn't affect a project already approved, especially if it's within a few years of production, at the same time a shortage of cash will.

Just so we understand each other, that extra money doen't hurt!

 

It's not already approved...they do not have the development money to throw at the extra project. They originally planne dto throw $1-2 billion at the pension fund...which I don't think people fully understand. Instead of putting money in an account that accrues interest, GM puts a certain percent in investments. That worked well and good in a great economy, however when the economy takes a dump like it has now and your investements loose money GM has to makeup for that shortfall. Gm was expecting 10% returns on the money it invested in it's pension fund which it met or exceded in the late 90's..they would put $1,000 in and in a year have $1,100. Well now that the economy took a dump they are putting $1,000 in and getting $800-900 backin a year. Of course these are just ratio's...you would have to inflated them to the billion dollar scale we are talking. Also with a bad economy GM cuts costs and allows early retirements....well that compounds teh pension problem since not only is the fund underfunded in a bad economy, but you also are adding more retirees that are drawing funds from it.

My point is GM budgeted $1-2 billion to pay into the underfunded pension fund. I am assuming that they budgeted Huges as if it was still and asset and either losing money or breaking even. Well now they sold Hughes and have an extra $3billion dollars they didn't plan for...almost like getting a big tax return..

GM badly wants to approve a new Camaro, but it was luxury they were unsure they could afford...kinda like wanting a big screen TV, but economy is bad so you are holding off. Well this extra $3 billion is like getting a nice tax return and suddenly you can start considering seriously buying that big screen....if you get my drift.

Also I have been told if given the green light tommorow considering all the work to this point...a new Camaro could be done in 28-36 months

 

That would keep it on track for the predicted 2006-2007 timeframe then.

Which with the whole CAW thing, we know is about the best scenario we can hope for, barring some miracle legal breakthrough.

 

Also it depends on what level GM funds it at...sure it can be done in that timeframe...but if they streach it out over say 40 months it costs less.

From my research the naming rights are in effect from the date of last car made + 3 years. The actual contract expires this September....all the info is out there...just need to know where to look

 

Hmmm... Interesting. I would have thought it to be the other way around.... thinking that the faster you get the finished product to market, the faster you begin to see returns on your investment.

So that would put GM 'free and clear' around Sept/Oct 2005, then, right? (I can't remember the date the last F-Body was built exactly.)

 

You can do a car with alot less people if you have more time...plus you also can fix things like supplier problems cheaper with more time. If you remember form "All Corvettes are Red" They had alot of supplier issues that cost *** loads of money to fix because deadlines were flying up and time was running out. If you have more time you can evealuate a problem better and find the most cost effective way to fix it.

 

Thats the time I was told.

 

Good points... I suppose there is a balance somewhere between the two...

 

If a Camaro is going to be done in 28-36 months, then that means the design is locked in, the chassis has been chosen, and that all they are waiting for is money to begin putting together alpha cars for engineering work (planning board's "go" approval). The only other way for a car to get to production that fast from scratch is if it's essentially a reskinning on an product already under development. Planning board approval generally means 2 1/2 to 3 years. However, there are plenty of steps to get there. Camaro has cleared all those steps, or is about to. Let me know if I'm wrong.

On the pension fund, your understanding of it is flawless, but if you get a nice unexpected tax return, and you have a huge gapping hole in a no-option expense such as the pension fund, tell me, what would be the 1st place you'd put that money?

BTW (to anyone who wants to know): It has been noted that much of GM's revelations are only about cars that have board approval, unless otherwise stated. Therefore, the next GTO is approved, while the next Impala is still "being worked on". GM will have large RWD cars at Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Buick that share with the VE, but it's names and what (If any) vehicles they replace is still "undecided".

Only a few people can officially talk about future vehicles. Generally the product development chief controls the information, and that's why Bob Lutz is the best source of leaks (or keeping track of things such as factories & powertrain developments).

I was a year off in what I said. 2006 cars are set. GM is currently doing the 2007 model year lineup.