First I like the GTO, so this isnt a bashing thread.

But with the death of the FBody Id imagine its going to hurt SLP a ton. However, with the 4th gen, the SS/WS6/Firehawk cars were the cash cows obviously, and I doubt GM would want to hurt any future product development with SLP. So they make a bland looking GTO knowing that quite a few customers will opt for the special package SLP will have to offer, thus keeping both parties happy and keeping the door open for a SLP-ized 5th gen?

Maybe it is that far feteched, but just throwing something out there.

 

I hardly think that much effort was put into keeping a good working relationship with SLP.

The subtlety of the new GTO fits in line with the new, clean Pontiac image (and it was cost/time-effective to only give the car a nose job). The SLP appearance solution is just a convienant fix for the detractors who are only dissatisfied with the exterior of the car. I'm sure the next gen or even next model year will make the SLP connection less of an issue.

BTW, the WS6 was done in-house.

 

IMO, the biggest factor was the budget.

GM knew GTO would only be able to be made in limited quantities, and therefore, they would have "X" amount of dollar to spend on "Pontiac-izing" the Monaro... The bumper covers and a few other changes chewed up most/all of that money.

 

The whole point of the Monaro based GTO was to put V8, RWD performance into Pontiac's portfolio as fast and as cheaply as possible. If the Monaro was not around, there would be no 2004 GTO - simple as that.

My biggest gripe about the GTO is that it doesn't look aggressive enough for a muscle car. In my mind the whole Pontiac lineup should look muscular and aggressive. Hopefully the next gen GTO will address the exterior styling. As much as I like Retro, this version of the GTO doesn't necessarily need it.

 

SLP is not hurting. Yes the SS/Firehawk was a big part of their business, but they have now have dealer packages for the Ranger (Thunderbolt), the S-Blazer (Adventure), Regal GSX, Grand Prix GTX, Monte Carlo, and I think one other. They have diversified a bunch and their performance parts biz has really grown the last few years.

 

And speaking of budget...
If I want MY GTO to resemble the original and have the scoops and what-nots, I now get to pay $35k for the car as-is, and pay an additional $xxxx to get the hood, panels, and stuff painted to match and installed. And I get to pay $xxxx more for the additional go-fast goodies to get me to 400hp. So someone tell me again about factory-offering what people want for economical prices? It sure BETTER be exclusive and good!

 

The whole Monaro project was designed to be profitable over just a 3 year run and a total of only about 15,000 cars!

Now, it has not only the initial 15,000 cars, it also has an additional 600 cars per year exported to the Middle East & Europe, and at least 2 years of 18,000 unit per year export to the US!

So instead of having a project designed to be profitable at 15,000 cars, Monaro will sell over 52,000 cars!

Monaro was NOT designed to create work for SLP. It was designed to compete with the understated designs from Europe. That, my friends is EXACTLY the direction Pontiac is going. It's pure coincidence that it's design fits in with the direction Pontiac is going.

Initially, it was Holden's Statesman that was evaluated for sale here as a Buick. The UTE has had a contingency at GM (both here & in Australia) pushing it as an El Camino. The GTO idea came from someone in Australia who was part of the initial Statesman-as-Buick team. Bob Lutz got wind of it, and suddenly the "we can't bring Holden here" crowd was pretty much steamrolled (rightly so).

Holdens mandate was simply to get Monaro to clear US regulations in just over a years time, and in return, North America invested in expanding Holden's plant to make it happen. Because of Monaro's body, morphing a Pontiac front end on it was almost too easy. There was simply no time or budget to do anything beyond this.... what if the car failed?

Because of the response at Pontiac dealers by customers making deposits already (most all dealers already have at least 1 deposit on the car, and many have a lot more), GM already is spending money not only on yearly upgrades for the next 3 years, it has a totally new replacement on the books in 2006. Also the aftermarket on the car almost promises to dwarf any GM product we've seen in years!

Like every car should be, the new GTO isn't for everybody. GTO has traditionally been THE most expensive, most luxurious of all muscle cars, so there's no grounds to bemoan the new GTO at a (much cheaper than Cobra) $32-35,000 price tag.

GTOs traditionally have had some type of hood scoops, and perhaps this one needs them as well (I wonder how many people here bought a post 1997 Z28, even though it lost it's own traditional hood scoops and you had to get the "expensive", SLP Camaro to get them?)

With the 2004 GTO scheduled to get hood scoops in 2005, a redesign in 2006, and some serious aftermarket support even before it even hits the showrooms, and pretty certain to be sold out early it's 1st year, it would seem that if you don't want the "plain jane" GTO, simply wait a year or 2. If you are under the illusion the GTO should be $25,000 Camaro, you're pretty delusional. Camaro SSs ran over $30K, and it didn't have IRS, power everything, a modern chassis, and a high quality interior.

That means, either get a Mustang or wait for the next Camaro or perhaps, a Monte Carlo.

 

Tangent:

I like SLP's work over the years, their packages are nifty and have a lot of "cool" factor.

But the trend is getting really annoying now. So they now have a half dozen factory packages that can add up to $3000 to the sticker price. And in my estimation none of these packages substantively increases the value of the car. In otherwords it just makes the car $3000 overpriced IMO. I still don't think a Camaro SS, fully loaded or not, was ever worth the $32K sticker price...just wasn't that high quality of an automobile.

SLP however makes money off the packages in an incremental way. I'd like to see GM internalize a lot of these packages and be able to offer them more cheaply where the average customer could better justify the extra cost.

 

I picked up my Camaro SS in late spring. The car was a fully loded 1LE, t-top cromw wheels ect... The sticker was 33K and change. I paid 26,700 plus Taxes for the car. It was new and not a demo. My "deal" was very common. The car was sold to me inbetween "floor plan" and "invoice" I bet that there were plenty of LS1 SS cars that went for high 20s. The new GTO will sell for 7 grand more than the average SS was sold for. I like the GTO a lot but if you plan on replacing your SS with it it will cost even more than people have led us to believe.

 

See here.

http://www.slponline.com/cad2003/cad.../cad2003_3.asp

 

On one hand, one could say that if your SS stickered at $33,000, and you paid $26,700, then it also stands to reason that a $32-35,000 GTO could also go for the same price, not $7,000 more.

Taking the opposite tack, if GTO sells for the same $32-35,000, and it is gouged for more, then it isn't GM's fault, it's the public because they want it so much, they are willing to pay for it, and it's the dealers fault because they are preying on them.

Regardless as to what some people say about GTO's price, it's barely more expensive than a SS (even though it's better made and insanely loaded).

You unwittingly made perhaps the most profound points supporting my other thread about why every automaker believes that a performance car selling well into the $30,000 range is "affordable", and will aim their next batch of RWD high performance musclecars in that price range .

1. You first went for the SS, ignoring the equally great regular Z28, as did heaps of others. Don't think GM didn't notice this!

2. You ordered your car loaded. That's exactly the way all GTOs will be made. Cobras are sold virtually loaded w/ few options, and I get the feeling the upcomming Chrysler LX V8 performance cars will also be at least "well equpted". Notably, unlike the rest of the Mustang lineup from time to time, Ford NEVER has had a problem selling Cobras! Even AFTER their "little" horsepower problem a few years ago.



BTW (and a bit off topic), over a year and a half ago, before Cobra came out, after finding out what they dynoed (don't ask how), I posted they were underrated. Since then, almost everyone who has tested them found the same thing. Mustang Cobra typically produce roughly 415 horsepower!

For those who want to convert it to 1960s to pre-1972 "gross" horsepower ratings, the 281cid Cobra makes in the neighborhood of 475-485 horsepower. ...think about what size engines needed to be back then to make that kind of power (and how much fue it drank!).

 

I remeber looking at some Z28s on the lot as well. A fully loded Z28 stickered for almost 29K. The dealer would let me have thatone for 25K. The SS's had more of a mark up and more room to play. For the price difference I feel the better wheels, suspention, brakes, Hood, Spoiler, bigger and better tires , floormats ect... are worth the 1600 dollar price difference. I just dont think that the GTO has the same room for play the Camaro had. The fact that it wont be around long and changed/upgraded many times before a new body style comes out will lead to it never selling for much less than MSRP. The real price difference will be more like 5 to 7 grand. I would rather pay extra for the nicer gto if it performed as well as our F-Bods. But I wonr be able to buy a 35K car and a C6 in the next few years. I need a toy and a toy that can seat 4.

 

The only thing it lacks is a Z/28 emblem.

 

You got that right!! Z28

Haven't seen you for a while Z284, I'm gonna have a good PM coming your way soon. That description sounds more like a Z28 alright. 1st Gen Z28's, IROC-Z28's, 1LE Z28's, or pretty much any Z28 ever built. Until the later 4th Gen that is. I have no idea what the SS name has to do with any of that.

 

Here we go!!! Now you're talkin'.
This is what I was eluding to above.

If SLP can wait until GM is done tinkering with the design to even BEGIN developing their aftermarket hood, skirts, and whatever else they are gonna offer, and they can STILL be to market on time with the production release... somebody tell me why GM couldn't do it too! Don't give me the old "time-to-market" or "no-time-to-develop" crap, because SLP has done it, and had LESS time to work on it.

In my opinion, if a buyer wants a more aggressive-looking GTO (like the originals), he/she should be able to get that car without having to pay for the original car (including the cost of the GP-like front and hood), then pay for the additional peices from SLP. The option (that should be standard anyways! ) should come right out of the GM container.

Now I DO advocate the aftermarket, and I think it will be key to the car's success, especially with tinkerers, but this is like Ford letting Saleen offer the GT hoodscoop for a scoopless Mustang GT... it's goofy.

All I can say is KUDOS to SLP for stepping it up, grabbing the ball, and running with it - fast too. They deserve every single $ they make off this package.