http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/19/l...ught-in-japan/

They are not failing by a large margin, but its interesting to see Toyota not meeting expectations. Do you all think this is lack of Lexus sales in Japan is temporary for the reasons the article suggests, or do you think the Japanese simply see Lexus as just a fancy Toyota? I know past US Lexus models were really Japanese Toyota models (IS300=Altezza, LX470=LandCruiser, GS300=Aristo, ES330=Windom, SC300=Soarer, etc). But I assumed Lexus latest products are no longer duplicated in the Toyota line, right? In other words, there is not still a Toyota version of the GS/IS/LS/LX/SC/RX model lines, is there? Are they trying to sell a Toyota Altezza 350 and a Lexus IS350 and expecting the Japanese to embrace the Lexus version?

If they are duplicating products, that would be pretty funny. That seems to be a sticking point of criticism against a lot of domestic "luxury" models. They are perceived as rebadged iterations of lesser vehicles with a few extra features and a dis-proportionate increase in price for the extra features. Example, Lincoln Zephyr and Ford Fusion, Escalade and Tahoe. You would think Toyota would notice this and offer unique Lexus models with no clear connections to the "lesser" models.

As for Lexus being too sporty, that does not make sense as an excuse. If a Lexus is too sporty, why are they buying BMW and MB as alternatives? I think most agree that BMW and MB are "sportier" than most equivalent Lexus models. Lexus makes a fine car for their target market, but I don't think Lexus has ever been known for sporty cars.

 

The entire Lexus line only a short time ago were assorted Toyotas.

Imagine taking Chevrolet some years ago, pulling out Caprice Classic, Malibu Classis, and maybe the Berlinetta, and creating a new luxury division on the level of Cadillac.

I suspect that's the problem.

 

I think it has more to do with the fact that the models that they are using were already established as mainstream Toyotas over there.

When I was over there last summer, I didn't see any Lexus badged vehicles, and in retrospect I can see how the current Lexus vehicles would seem out of place over there. Look at how the Lexus ES, IS, and GS have become more "Americanized" over the years. I think the Japanese consumers are having a hard time becoming convinced that Toyotas designed for the American market are better than their mainstream cars designed specifically for the home market.

Small cars are the most dominate group over there. The one import I saw more of than anything else was the Mini Cooper (old and new). Bigger luxury cars from BMW and MB also seem have their place as well. Another thing I noticed was that most of the luxury cars I saw over there were the top model, i.e more 760i's as opposed to 745i's, etc.

 

So basically, its the same problem as the other luxury marks linked to lower models. In Japan, they only see premium BMWs and MBs, so associate them as premium. The association with Toyota and its lesser models brings down the image of the Lexus in the eyes of brand and image conscious buyers. Same as association with Chevy brings down the image of Cadillac, association with Nissan brings down the image of Infiniti, or association with Ford brings down the image of Jaguar. I wonder how Toyota plans to attack this problem?

 

Maybe it's the the bland styling.

 

Good to know that the Japenese aren't blighted by ethnic pride and recognize quality when they see it. MB and BMW are very strong there, and costs nearly $80k USD at current E.R. in their country!!!!

 

They don't buy MB and BMW for the quality. On quality alone, Lexus would destroy either of them. They do it for the same reason people do over here, and that is because they are status symbols.

 

Quality as in names. Lexus = Toyota as we already know.

 

I have not yet read that article but I already am very familiar with the question at hand.

The answer is, it's all a question of marketing.

Toyota originally sold ALL models as Toyotas in their country. There was a very wide range of price because everything from the most basic of economy models to the biggest of luxury cruisers and SUVs were all sold under the Toyota name.

Toyota sold their more basic models here in the states but felt they were not ready to compete in the luxury class with what we had here in the states until about 1989. At that point they decided to start selling their more premium models, but with a twist. They realized by looking at Cadillac as a part of GM and Lincoln as a part of Ford, that US luxury buyers expected their premium cars to wear a premium badge and to receive segregated premium service. It's really no different than people who expect a fancy label on their 70 dollar shirt... the same people who'd never pay 70 dollars for the EXACT same shirt if it were sold in Wal-mart. Again, it's just a consumer mentality that we see very strongly here in the states as well as some other parts of the world.

GM could easily take a Caddy and slap a Chevy badge on it and it'd be the same exact car, but US consumers would respond poorly to that. In fact I know a lot of people who balk at the platform sharing between Caddy and other 'lower' GM brands even today (as well as other brands such as Lexus, Audi, Infiniti, Lincoln, etc). Personally it doesn't bother me. In fact I think platform sharing allows more money to go toward real improvements instead of just R&D of a unique design for a low volume model.

Anyhow... just as in 1989 when Toyota launched Lexus in the US... last year Toyota launched Lexus in Japan to much the same critisism. But eventually people here got used to it. And again; rebadging is nothing new... Toyota is just much later to the game, relatively speaking, especially in Japan where rebadging hasn't been seen much yet.

Oh, and about BMW and Mercedes... go over to Europe. They are just like Chevys over there. A dime a dozen. Even the 18-wheelers are often Mercedes, and definitely no more 'luxury' than the Internationals and Freightliners. BMW and Mercedes just choose to upmarket themselves by only importing their mid and higher priced models to the states, though over time they've been introducing less and less expensive models (1-series, A3, etc)