1990 Turbo Grand Prix

Domestics vs. Imports

First off, I want to say that this is not meant to be a flame, so please do not take it in that manor.

I keep up with the global automobile market about as well as anyone, and there is a trend that has been set in motion that disturbs me something fierce. It’s not new, but that doesn’t make it not a problem. The problem at hand is that the American people have no pride in their country’s products anymore. I live in a part of the country where we still believe in America, but when you start moving closer to the cities and towards the coasts, the number of import automobiles is stunning. And my question is why? To find the answer, we will have to back track some time.
In the post WWII days, to have anything, especially cars, from Germany or Japan was to be a traitor of your country, USA. Times changed, and so did the cars. The gas crunch hit US auto makers hard, and the tight little fuel efficient imports came onto the scene making quite a name for themselves. This was the opening for imports to come in. The fuel crisis ended, US product improved, and now we fast-forward to modern times.
I read on Blueovalnews.com that Toyota has record profits that would take all of the big three to make in a year. Honda and Mitsubishi are becoming big also. And German marques are being in there own “league”. Add to this Ford is struggling to survive, Chrysler is owned by Daimler, and GM is fighting to live too, but on a lower level. Now, what is wrong with this picture? I’ll tell you what it is, LOYALTY. Take it from me and many others, regardless of what popular belief is these days, imports are not superior, or even better in many/most ways, shapes, or forms. I’m in a business that deals will all makes and models, new and used. I drive them all and with sharp criticism for both foreign and domestic. Now I’m not saying that all German and Japanese cars are junk and all American cars are the best, I’ve been around long enough to know that to say such a thing is ignorant. I realize that those foreign makes do make some great vehicles, but for people to buy them and then think they are so much smarter for not buying American because of a little four letter word, hype, is just wrong.
My reason for writing this is because too many people find it too easy and don’t even think about what they are doing before they buy a new import. When you do this, you are not supporting American business. You are supporting another country and not your own. People will try to justify that a few imports are made here in America, thus making them domestics. But wait, where do you think the money is going? When you look at Japan and Germany, do you think you see as many American automobiles over there as you see theirs over here? No you don’t. Why do you think this is? Perception perhaps? I don’t believe that people realize what would happen if, say, the big three went down the tubes. It would be the biggest corporate economy wave to hit America ever, and would put the US in such a nightmare you can’t imagine.
The point of all this is that we shouldn’t let the imports become the domestics of our country. Have pride, be loyal, support the USA. What is your opinion?

Again, I want to stress this is not against import buyers and is not to be taken as a flame to you, I just want to understand the “whys” of import shoppers. I enjoy foreign automobiles also, I just wish the bulk of them stayed in their respective country. Thank you for all responses

Ken S

Most people that I know that buy only import cars, swearing off domestic name brands because they've had bad experiences in the past and refuse to deal with those brands anymore, even if its still relevant or not..


For example, if you bought a brand of hand soup, that irritated your skin, you would probably switch brands.. would you ever go back to that old brand, even if they changed their formula? Even if it was slightly cheaper?


Personally, I still have brand loyalty..But after doing research and if the competing product clearly has better performance/value by my own personal metrics... I'm going to spend my money on the better product.


Now I wish some people wouldn't be so blind in only considering import cars... but usually they do have their personal reasons and feelings.. and car buying is not necessarily a logical decision, as we all know..

calling someone a "traitor" for execising their right to buy whatever is on the market isn't very American..

Z28Marcus

GM is trying harder to bring the overall quality of their products in to line with what the Imports are perceived to offer. I also think the 24 hours 'sleep on it' ad. thing is an interesting angle. While I'm not sure how much of the credit he can take, it does seem much of the renewed vigor and commitment to improving GMs perceived quality and excitement began when Bob Lutz came into the picture.

But it's still going to take years of continued effort on GM's part to persuade the open minded folk who currently buy imports to buy American. All the while Toyota and Honda are going to be busy too.

In the long run, if people continue to shy away from buying American, it's going to hurt this country more than people think. Who knows what other competetion there will be in 15 years time from growing industrial nations like China and India. Don't laugh - the may produce goods of questionable quality now, but make no mistake, these countries are hungry for economic parity.
Plus these countries do not acknowledge unions so they tend to have cheaper labour rates (not syaing that's good from a humanitarian POV, but it bodes ill when they can undercut the US).

Nothing is certain - some 'experts' are predicting the US could become a third world country in the next 50 years. But maybe that's going to far.

Buy American!!

SFireGT98

I agree with most of ur post Grand Prix. People say all the time when the import vs domestic thing comes up that some imports are made here. sorry but the money no matter how many roads it takes, ends up back at the honda, nissan, toyota, BMW, Mercedes, etc headquarters back in Japan or Germany. It seems times have totally switched. Japan used to drive American cars a looooooong way back when those companies didnt exist and now most Japanese only drive Japanese cars (had a friend stationed over there or i would not know a damn thing about the Japs). Most Americans only drove American cars back in the mid 1900's to 1980's but now it seems most Americans are hell bent over their new Accord or Camry. And ive ridden in friend's honda civics, accords, nissan sentra se-r's, volkswagon gti's, jettas, etc. etc. and i just dont see the huge jump in interior quality everyone gripes about. my camaro's interior is just as good as all of these cars and i felt my sunfire's old interior whipped the civic's little plasticy cheap glued together look interior.

Anyway, hopefully with Lutz at the helm, GM can turn some ignorant import only buyers back into the domestic showrooms and hopefully Ford (yes Ford) gets their act all straightened up and helps out with this mission. I would love to say something about Chrysler but ever since they went in bed with Daimler, i have no idea where half of their dough goes.

newby

I found this part fairly interesting. I was watching an OLD Saturday night live sketch that had 2 samurai's fighting, in the end their swords broke, both looked at them and read "made in Japan" and nodded like it made sense.

My point?

It wasn't all that long ago that things made in Japan were considered "cheap", but now they are generally thought to be of higher quality, while "Made in the USA" is starting to become more of a joke.

Hopefully that will change, but it's an interesting thing to think about.

Ken S

scary detnews article

http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders...a01-154360.htm

USHotRod

Has anyone ever noticed that every country whose *** we hand to them ends up selling millions of cars over here? Germany, Japan, Korea: What the hell?

ced8

great so what you are trying to say is that in the next twenty years we will be riding camels???

j/k ... had to get that in there...

WERM

Domestic manufacturers need to realize that loyalty is a two way street. You can't forget about your line up and not update your products for years on end (Cavalier? Taurus?) and expect people to continue to buy them. You can't discontinue models like Camaro and leave some of your biggest supporters out cold. You can't have lower quality (in the last few years it has gotten far better - superior in some cases), but man, they pumped out a lot of **** for about 20 years that a lot of people won't easily forget). You can't not offer options that, while low in take rates, some people will not go without (example - manual transmission).

I used to be the biggest supporter of American Cars - but then it seemed like they just stopped making desirable cars for average joes (RIP - RWD Monte Carlo, Impala SS, Camaro, Firebird, Fiero, M12 T-Birds, Grand National, T-Types, RWD Cutlass, Syclone, Typhoon, most convertibles...)

Maybe things will be easier in a few years. Looks like at least a few interesting products are on the way.

redzed

I've never owned an import, but I'm willing to give it a shot. At the time I purchased my Z28, the Camaro was the only GM car I would have considered buying. In fact, it was the last remaining GM car that represented "traditional" American automotive values.

Now that GM seems intent on offering only poorly designed Toyota and BMW clones, I'm left to conclude that my next purchase will be either a GM truck/SUV, or a dreaded "import." To be honest, the idea of even a full-sized GM SUV doesn't appeal to me as much as it should. These vehicles strike me as cheaply designed, despite the enormous prices. Isn't it amazing that the "cheap" 1991 Caprice had Bosch ABS, but the expensive Tahoe/Escalade seems to make do with a downmarket Kelsey-Hayes ABS system. As sad as it seems, I'm currently pondering whether I could actually be live with a $35-40K GM vehicle. I guess the incentives will have to become far larger before I can answer "yes."

Anyway, the way I see it that the domestics have left behind anything that distinguished their products from the "imports." Maybe most people don't mind, but I sure do. Patriotism is not reason enough to "Buy American." If the Japanese and German makes can produce a vehicle that's close to what I want, so be it.

CamaroRSguy

We never fought South Korea. We fought North Korea and then the chinese there. The reason the Germans, Japanese, and Koreans can sell so much now is we destroyed everything they had, and had to totally rebuild and modernize. Kind of have to when all of your factories are destroyed. And of course we paid for most of this. Remember, if you ever come in power of a poor country, declare war on the US, and they'll rebuild you.

Anyways, hopefully the new American cars coming out shortly will show American cars are still competitive.

Eric Bryant

When you buy a Honda Accord, you put more money into my American pocket than when you buy a Grand Am (which contains products sold by my employeer, but at a lower margin) or a Taurus (which contains a Spanish competitor's part) or a Sebring (which contains a Canadian competitor's part), and you keep hard-working Michiganders in a job. There's more to the American auto industry than UAW jobs.

The Accord is built by well-paid workers about 8 hours away, in lovely Ohio, where as the competition may build their cars in Canada (GM, DCX) or Mexico (Ford, DCX). In all fairness, Honda does indeed build certain vehicles (SUVs) in Canada. The vast majority of new auto plants built in the US in the last 10 years have been by foreign transplants, and they've tended to be large, vertically-integrated operations.

The purchasing department of a certain Detoit manufacturer is doing everything it can to force its suppliers to build new relationships in such low-cost areas as China, Korea, and Mexico (although the two latter countries are rapidly getting expensive as their workers smarten-up about their market value). Honda, on the other hand, believes strongly in purchasing components from suppliers "local" (i.e. non-offshore) to their production site. This helps insulate them from currency flucuations (with the direction that the dollar is heading, anyone expecting to save a lot of money by buying foreign parts will probably be getting a rude surprise).

So, what's my point? You can benefit the American economy by buying a "Japanese" car. I have no guilt about the Accord that sits in my driveway - it's got just about as much US content as any other car in its class, Honda has done a great job of building long-term relationships with suppliers such as my employeer, they keep a lot of fellow Americans in a well-paying job, and it's a well-engineered product that doesn't force me into a pseudo-patriotic stance in order to justify its purchase (that's a rather strong statement - please don't think I'm aiming it at anyone in particular).

Now, Toyota on the other hand - they're making some very, uh, interesting moves in the name of cost reduction (off-shore sourcing, the Detroitish beating-up of suppliers, forcing unfair conditions upon their workers that'll likely result in a pro-union stance, etc.). They'll either succeed where others have failed, or they'll enjoy a very short period of time at the top. To me, they've got a very different "feel" about the way they do business that just doesn't sit well, but I'd have trouble explaining why.

redzed

1. I don't have any problem with components sourced in China. Actually, I'm amazed by the quality of Chinese produced goods. Of all of the consumer electronics I've purchased in the past few years, the only things that have broken were the "high-end" items produced in countries like Malaysia and Japan. So far, consumers have benefited from offshore "outsourcing," and higher labor costs don't always equal higher quality. Sometimes, its the otherway around.

That said, the West Coast "dockworker" strike did alot to stifle trans-Pacific trade. This is why alot of Mexican factories are still operating, when they should have already been moved to China or Vietnam.

2. You talk about "pseudo-Patriotism," but you obviously feel pride in your Accord because it has content from your company. Interesting?

3. Suppliers should be "beaten-up" when it comes time for contract negotiations. That's the successful model that Walmart has used for years, and its the model that all retailers seek to match. If you don't push the envelope with unreasonable demands for quality and efficiency, you're giving your supplier too much of a profit margin.

I can understand your perspective, but Honda and Toyota are far different companies. Honda can afford to be complaicent because they're the healthiest Japanese car maker. Toyota is coming back from a mid-90s quagmire of debt, Japanese-homemarket stagnation and an overvalued yen.

Is Toyota's rebound a "flash-in-the-pan?" Well, some of their products still are falling behind Honda in terms of design. Still, with the pressure of constantly improving Korean brands, no Japanese company should feel too comfortable. Pretty soon when people talk about reliable transportation, the list will be "Toyota, Honda and Hyundai." Now there's something I wouldn't have said a year ago.

WERM

Toyota is in pretty damn good shape. Actually, it's downright scary...

http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders...a01-154360.htm

Decromin

Well why is it very rare to see an American made car outside of the Americas? If they are as good as any other brand, why have they had little or no impact on the rest of the world? Makers like Saab, Volvo, Land Rover, Jaguar, MB, BMW, etc seem to be able to sell their cars in every market on the planet - why can't Chev, Dodge or Lincoln?