-Looks like the GTP may not have a lot more than the current 240 HP, which will cause it to lose it's performance edge to the accord and altima.

-Why the underpowerd SSR? Why is it taking so long to get this thing out?

-Why is the Silverado SS so tame?

-Who approved the styling on the 2003 Cavalier?

-If the GTO is supposed to kick *** and take names, why only 350 HP in such a heavy car?

-Same for the CTS. It could be better and faster than the M3, GM has the parts laying on the shelf. The other day a BMW owner I know showed me a link - apparently one of the "M3" guys with a last generation M3 is hopping it up with what? an LS-6 Smallblock. hmmm.

-Still no news on Camaro?

-Where are the Manual Transmissions on the "supersports"?

-When do we get a High Output 4? GM once had a 200hp 4, about 10 years ago.

-The coupe market and low cost performance market are blossoming, and GM is poised again to be last in with fresh product. (GTO aside).

 

All true, however I think that the 350hp on the GTO will be rather conservative considering all the talk of it getting a tweaked LS1.

 

No Werm, it's not just you....I see your point.

Ever since the Roger Smith era of the '80s, I've been waiting at the edge of my seat to see what the latest GM restructurings would reap.

Typically GM "newthink" would regress to GM "oldthink" in short order.

It certainly gets tiresome for an observer.

Well, maybe I'm hopeful again....but I'll really believe it when I see SPECTACULAR "new" sheetmetal in GM showrooms.

PS....

My GM stock is doing lousey.....who do I talk to about that?

 

Well, my thinking behind it is that Lutz, pretty much the anchor of the "new" GM, has only been there about a year so far... it's going to take longer than that to start getting totally new things out.

You have to assume pretty much everything that is coming out right now (or disappearing) was pre-Lutz decisions that would have been too costly to change.

 

Ok Darth, I'll go along with that. But come '04, '05 MY.....something from GM had better knock my socks off !

 

GTP 240hp!?? Last I heard, GM Powertrain signed off on it under pressure from Lutz, though they had questions about transmission durability. Has this changed?

I'm with you on the SSR & Silverado SS. I suspect both these vehicles will be limited enough not to affect any fuel economy ratings. If Dodge can afford a 12mpg Viper powered pickup truck, I don't see why GM can't put more power in their show trucks (though as an avowed car guy I'm not shedding many tears over it.

I also initially questioned why only 350hp in a CTS while Lincoln LS is going 400, but then I realised it's the torque that's going to make the car. Supposedly GTO & CTSi engines are going to have more torque than the current LS1s. Though the LS will have 400 hp, there's only so much torque you can squeeze out of a 3.9L V8.
I'm guessing GM want's to keep the LS6 exclusive like they did with the LT4.

I'm hoping that alot of news comes out from GM this upcomming auto show season. But at least for the most part, Ford is worse. Beyond the new Mustang, Passat...er..500, & F150, Ford has no new cars on the horizon.

But then they do have that supercharged Thunderbird & 400 hp Lincoln LS to look forward to.

 

Well we are going to get the CTSv as it looks. Lord knows what it'll come down as, but at least it looks like its going to happen with a V8.

The GTO... no one seems quite sure on this. First we heard it wont be the expected 350 hp, now we hear it'll be a "tweaked" ls1 which would imply over 350 hp. I guess we'll be in the dark on this one until the last minute.

The SSR, yes definatlly a big disappointment.

Silverado SS, it was honestly HARD for gm to not market this at performance enthusiasts, but some how they managed to do it.

Im really mixed on the whole situation, but as of right now GM is turning a profit so I guess they're ahead in that department over a lot of their competors, but the question is at what cost?

 

If I remember correctly from this board, I thought that it wasn't going to be the 3.9 V8 but is going to be a new bored version of the 4.6, a modular 5.0 and that this engine was to also go into the New Boss 302 Mustang that we hear about on occasion here. With 5 liters instead of 3.9, I can see how they can more easily get 350-375 ft/lb of torque if the current 4.6 is making 320 or so? I forget how much torque that engine makes.

 

Agreed! Especially around MY2005.

 

GM is a big ship to turn around.. but in reality, I'm not expecting GM to put any rediculous HP vehicles out in the road.. especially since 350-400 is practically manditory now..

What I'm hoping at least is the GM Performance Division pick up the slack and releasing kits to try fill some of the gap..

My dream would be C5R 7.0L kits for all 5.7L LS1 powered vehicles.. I mean the exterior dimensions are identical if you use the standard ls6 heads... All thats needed would be just computers and fuel and drivetrain upgrades to make it bolt in and solid right? It would be nice for an "undocumented" feature to make this "offroad" kit pass emission sniffers and OBD scanners... I mean it would already pass visuals unless perhaps they knew exactly what to look for. That should be a relatively easy and tame 450 rwhp/tq right?

True, it would be expensive as all hell just for the C5R block or its equivalent itself... but it would make things very interesting...

 

I agree with the poster. But they do need time. IMO they need to get real performance back and quick. And while they're at it, all new designers too.

 

You're right, it will be a different engine. The 3.9 is being phased out in the LS.