It's Official: 2011 Ford Mustang GT has 5.0-liter V8
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
I think you read my post as my thinking the current Mustang's design is all new.
I'm not that far gone Paul.
Quoting the 2005 sales is pointless. Chrysler and GM didn't offer a pony car that year. So Ford was the only option. It wasn't because all those people were loyal mustang follower or because it was "so cool" when it debuted. It was because there wasn't another option. Notice it's nowhere near half of it's sales numbers now that a Camaro and Challenger are available?
The evidence I presented was that the current Mustang has been on the road for nearly 6 years (and it's refresh is still a variation of that design).
There are about a million D2C Mustangs on the road that we've been seeing over 6 years.
There are about 35-40 thousnd new Camaros on the road that we've been seeing for about 8 months.
We're used to seeing the Mustang, so we don't give it as much attention.
We aren't used to seeing the Camaro, so we give it more.
The 2004 Mustang was a craze back in fall 2003 till about a year or two later and gathered alot of attention on the streets. Camaro currently enjoys that because it also is new and stunning.
There will be a point where the current Camaro has been out so long or where there is so many on the streets and the competition has something much newer, that the current Camaro will be in the same position as the current Mustang... a relative yawn in styling.
Your diversion of what cars were and weren't on the market has nothing to do with this point, since there are still a huge difference between the number of Mustangs we see daily and have gotten used to over the years and the number of new Camaros on the streets that are still head turners.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Mustang got a major external and interior freshening concurrent with Camaro's release. Now it will be getting all new powertrains and other mechanical enhancements. New models (SVT Boss, Shelby GT350?, 2.5L EcoBoost?) are in the pipeline >>>>>>>AND<<<<<<<< the next gen car is coming around 2014.
Camaro had better start quickening it's step.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,698
From: USA
Didn't Mustang lead in sales quite a long time without being the best performing of the two?
Think about that for a moment.
Mustang got a major external and interior freshening concurrent with Camaro's release. Now it will be getting all new powertrains and other mechanical enhancements. New models (SVT Boss, Shelby GT350?, 2.5L EcoBoost?) are in the pipeline >>>>>>>AND<<<<<<<< the next gen car is coming around 2014.
Camaro had better start quickening it's step.
Mustang got a major external and interior freshening concurrent with Camaro's release. Now it will be getting all new powertrains and other mechanical enhancements. New models (SVT Boss, Shelby GT350?, 2.5L EcoBoost?) are in the pipeline >>>>>>>AND<<<<<<<< the next gen car is coming around 2014.
Camaro had better start quickening it's step.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Everything!
What he's saying is in the past car A outsold car B although car B out-performed car A.
Although car B is currently outselling car A, your suggestion was is that car B needs to step up because next year's model of car A will be more nimble (less weight) and have almost as much horsepower as this year's car B.
What he's saying is in the past car A outsold car B although car B out-performed car A.
Although car B is currently outselling car A, your suggestion was is that car B needs to step up because next year's model of car A will be more nimble (less weight) and have almost as much horsepower as this year's car B.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Everything!
What he's saying is in the past car A outsold car B although car B out-performed car A.
Although car B is currently outselling car A, your suggestion was is that car B needs to step up because next year's model of car A will be more nimble (less weight) and have almost as much horsepower as this year's car B.
What he's saying is in the past car A outsold car B although car B out-performed car A.
Although car B is currently outselling car A, your suggestion was is that car B needs to step up because next year's model of car A will be more nimble (less weight) and have almost as much horsepower as this year's car B.
It's the 1980s.
Ford is selling a Mustang that is more 2 door sedan than sport coupe, whose body (and interior) not only has been around since the fall of 1978, but was lifted intact from the Ford Fairmounts that came out in the fall of 1977.
Meanwhile, Chevrolet is selling a swoopy sports coupe that costs significantly more and weighs a bit more than Mustang, but has newly chisled dead gorgeous looks, a highly sophisticated (for the early 80s) and highly capable chassis.
What did Ford do to even the playing (and sales) field, which kept their somewhat frumpy Mustang on the market from 3 years before the 3rd gen Camaro all the way up till the 2nd year of the 4th gen Camaro?
Fastforward to 2011, and you see a hell of a lot of similarities.
A traffic stopping, high feature Camaro that costs $32K, and a familiar and somewhat more primitive Ford Mustang that is poised to cost $4K less, yet not only keep up with Camaro, but likely surpass it in performance.
Don't use the 4th gen as a yardstick for anything other than the lesson that performance alone doesn't sell. Value, practicality, in a good looking package does. Add performance to that basic package, and you wind up expanding intrest even more. Adding the LS1 and better brakes to the 1998 Camaro normally would have been a winning move to keep sales going. Instead, the 4th gen Camaro itself was flawed to the point (styling, size, and quality) that it was the Mustang that picked up sales. Mustang's 1999 exterior-only redesign sent sales through the roof, though the rest of the car was a carryover save an engine tweak.
While the new 305 horsepower in the base Mustang V6 may not be enough to make it a bigger value than the 300 horse, IRS, 157mph, traffic stopping good looking V6 Camaro, having a Mustang GT with over 410 horspower, nimble handling, and a cost only $400 or so north of the current version makes the upcoming Mustang GT the unquestioned steal-of-a-deal.
IMHO, the upgrades to power and equptment are more than enough to win most of the buyers who (not being Camaro or GM loyalists) to date have either been torn the Camaro SS and Mustang GT, or had any hesitation whatsoever about buying the SS. The performance folks that stoped long enough to ask themselves "Rockstar looks aside, which is really the better car??"
Base form, I'd still say Camaro V6. The interior materials is Hyundai quality (I mean the previous not-so-good-but-good-enough Hyundais, not the current "not bad" ones), and the dash is looking uglier everytime I see it, but nothing on the planet has what it has at the price it's going at.
But....when you move to V8s, as long as Ford shows enough sense not to jack the GT's price up to within a country mile of the SS' $32K, it's looking like the 5.0 is enough to give Mustang GT the upper hand and be a hands down choice that I'd wager will pay off sales.
Last edited by guionM; Jan 4, 2010 at 03:11 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 654
From: Snow Belt, PA
Well, consider this bit of history.
It's the 1980s.
Ford is selling a Mustang that is more 2 door sedan than sport coupe, whose body (and interior) not only has been around since the fall of 1978, but was lifted intact from the Ford Fairmounts that came out in the fall of 1977.
Meanwhile, Chevrolet is selling a swoopy sports coupe that costs significantly more and weighs a bit more than Mustang, but has newly chisled dead gorgeous looks, a highly sophisticated (for the early 80s) and highly capable chassis.
What did Ford do to even the playing (and sales) field, which kept their somewhat frumpy Mustang on the market from 3 years before the 3rd gen Camaro all the way up till the 2nd year of the 4th gen Camaro?
Fastforward to 2011, and you see a hell of a lot of similarities.
A traffic stopping, high feature Camaro that costs $32K, and a familiar and somewhat more primitive Ford Mustang that is poised to cost $4K less, yet not only keep up with Camaro, but likely surpass it in performance.
Don't use the 4th gen as a yardstick for anything other than the lesson that performance alone doesn't sell. Value, practicality, in a good looking package does. Add performance to that basic package, and you wind up expanding intrest even more. Adding the LS1 and better brakes to the 1998 Camaro normally would have been a winning move to keep sales going. Instead, the 4th gen Camaro itself was flawed to the point (styling, size, and quality) that it was the Mustang that picked up sales. Mustang's 1999 exterior-only redesign sent sales through the roof, though the rest of the car was a carryover save an engine tweak.
While the new 305 horsepower in the base Mustang V6 may not be enough to make it a bigger value than the 300 horse, IRS, 157mph, traffic stopping good looking V6 Camaro, having a Mustang GT with over 410 horspower, nimble handling, and a cost only $400 or so north of the current version makes the upcoming Mustang GT the unquestioned steal-of-a-deal.
IMHO, the upgrades to power and equptment are more than enough to win most of the buyers who (not being Camaro or GM loyalists) to date have either been torn the Camaro SS and Mustang GT, or had any hesitation whatsoever about buying the SS. The performance folks that stoped long enough to ask themselves "Rockstar looks aside, which is really the better car??"
Base form, I'd still say Camaro V6. The interior materials is Hyundai quality (I mean the previous not-so-good-but-good-enough Hyundais, not the current "not bad" ones), and the dash is looking uglier everytime I see it, but nothing on the planet has what it has at the price it's going at.
But....when you move to V8s, as long as Ford shows enough sense not to jack the GT's price up to within a country mile of the SS' $32K, it's looking like the 5.0 is enough to give Mustang GT the upper hand and be a hands down choice that I'd wager will pay off sales.
It's the 1980s.
Ford is selling a Mustang that is more 2 door sedan than sport coupe, whose body (and interior) not only has been around since the fall of 1978, but was lifted intact from the Ford Fairmounts that came out in the fall of 1977.
Meanwhile, Chevrolet is selling a swoopy sports coupe that costs significantly more and weighs a bit more than Mustang, but has newly chisled dead gorgeous looks, a highly sophisticated (for the early 80s) and highly capable chassis.
What did Ford do to even the playing (and sales) field, which kept their somewhat frumpy Mustang on the market from 3 years before the 3rd gen Camaro all the way up till the 2nd year of the 4th gen Camaro?
Fastforward to 2011, and you see a hell of a lot of similarities.
A traffic stopping, high feature Camaro that costs $32K, and a familiar and somewhat more primitive Ford Mustang that is poised to cost $4K less, yet not only keep up with Camaro, but likely surpass it in performance.
Don't use the 4th gen as a yardstick for anything other than the lesson that performance alone doesn't sell. Value, practicality, in a good looking package does. Add performance to that basic package, and you wind up expanding intrest even more. Adding the LS1 and better brakes to the 1998 Camaro normally would have been a winning move to keep sales going. Instead, the 4th gen Camaro itself was flawed to the point (styling, size, and quality) that it was the Mustang that picked up sales. Mustang's 1999 exterior-only redesign sent sales through the roof, though the rest of the car was a carryover save an engine tweak.
While the new 305 horsepower in the base Mustang V6 may not be enough to make it a bigger value than the 300 horse, IRS, 157mph, traffic stopping good looking V6 Camaro, having a Mustang GT with over 410 horspower, nimble handling, and a cost only $400 or so north of the current version makes the upcoming Mustang GT the unquestioned steal-of-a-deal.
IMHO, the upgrades to power and equptment are more than enough to win most of the buyers who (not being Camaro or GM loyalists) to date have either been torn the Camaro SS and Mustang GT, or had any hesitation whatsoever about buying the SS. The performance folks that stoped long enough to ask themselves "Rockstar looks aside, which is really the better car??"
Base form, I'd still say Camaro V6. The interior materials is Hyundai quality (I mean the previous not-so-good-but-good-enough Hyundais, not the current "not bad" ones), and the dash is looking uglier everytime I see it, but nothing on the planet has what it has at the price it's going at.
But....when you move to V8s, as long as Ford shows enough sense not to jack the GT's price up to within a country mile of the SS' $32K, it's looking like the 5.0 is enough to give Mustang GT the upper hand and be a hands down choice that I'd wager will pay off sales.
What you're also missing is... Even though the Mustang has stepped up the power output 100hp, the Camaro still has a big torque advantage and a small hp advantage with it's initial offering. I don't think many people, if any, would disagree that the Camaro is only a "track pack" away from evening performance, if not surpassing the new 5.0. And like you mentioned... the Camaro still has the shock factor and the styling advantage that it will keep for at least another few years.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Everything!
What he's saying is in the past car A outsold car B although car B out-performed car A.
Although car B is currently outselling car A, your suggestion was is that car B needs to step up because next year's model of car A will be more nimble (less weight) and have almost as much horsepower as this year's car B.
What he's saying is in the past car A outsold car B although car B out-performed car A.
Although car B is currently outselling car A, your suggestion was is that car B needs to step up because next year's model of car A will be more nimble (less weight) and have almost as much horsepower as this year's car B.
Guy and I were talking about keeping your product fresh and updated. Mustang does that.
The fact that Mustang will outperform Camaro is a seperate issue.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,600
From: Pewee Valley, KY
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,698
From: USA
I really think your overreaching to make this story fit what you want it to be. Both the current Mustang and Camaro have their roots in sedan platforms that have been around a while. The current Mustang is in no means primitive..aside from the IRS and is in many ways set up better to do the job than Camaro. Mustang's interior is better, and the car is lighter. It is a by no means frumpy..it is just a step behind styling wise because it was the first to go retro. The prices will equal out once either the Mustang looses rebates, or the Camaro gets them.
The big difference you omitted is that back when the Fox Mustang came out it was a sporty little economical commuter car (I remember my mom cross shopping one with an Escort). It would have sold well in that market no matter what...because while not sporty by todays standards, it made more of a statement than driving an Escort and was nearly as cheap and efficiant. I guess what I am saying the 5.0L may have brought it back in to play in enthusiasts eyes, but the Mustang already sold well as a economy commuter car..just like the Mustang II did before it.
Today however, Mustang is sold as a sporty car...plain and simple. It's not considered small, economical transportation, and people don't cross shop it with the Focus (like my mom did the escort). It also costs more than the Focus. What I am saying..is now a days people buy a Mustang because they want a Mustang. Not like back in the day when it was a legimate and reasonable alternative to whatever crapbox economy car Ford was pimping at the time.
The big difference you omitted is that back when the Fox Mustang came out it was a sporty little economical commuter car (I remember my mom cross shopping one with an Escort). It would have sold well in that market no matter what...because while not sporty by todays standards, it made more of a statement than driving an Escort and was nearly as cheap and efficiant. I guess what I am saying the 5.0L may have brought it back in to play in enthusiasts eyes, but the Mustang already sold well as a economy commuter car..just like the Mustang II did before it.
Today however, Mustang is sold as a sporty car...plain and simple. It's not considered small, economical transportation, and people don't cross shop it with the Focus (like my mom did the escort). It also costs more than the Focus. What I am saying..is now a days people buy a Mustang because they want a Mustang. Not like back in the day when it was a legimate and reasonable alternative to whatever crapbox economy car Ford was pimping at the time.
Well, consider this bit of history.
It's the 1980s.
Ford is selling a Mustang that is more 2 door sedan than sport coupe, whose body (and interior) not only has been around since the fall of 1978, but was lifted intact from the Ford Fairmounts that came out in the fall of 1977.
Meanwhile, Chevrolet is selling a swoopy sports coupe that costs significantly more and weighs a bit more than Mustang, but has newly chisled dead gorgeous looks, a highly sophisticated (for the early 80s) and highly capable chassis.
What did Ford do to even the playing (and sales) field, which kept their somewhat frumpy Mustang on the market from 3 years before the 3rd gen Camaro all the way up till the 2nd year of the 4th gen Camaro?
Fastforward to 2011, and you see a hell of a lot of similarities.
A traffic stopping, high feature Camaro that costs $32K, and a familiar and somewhat more primitive Ford Mustang that is poised to cost $4K less, yet not only keep up with Camaro, but likely surpass it in performance.
Don't use the 4th gen as a yardstick for anything other than the lesson that performance alone doesn't sell. Value, practicality, in a good looking package does. Add performance to that basic package, and you wind up expanding intrest even more. Adding the LS1 and better brakes to the 1998 Camaro normally would have been a winning move to keep sales going. Instead, the 4th gen Camaro itself was flawed to the point (styling, size, and quality) that it was the Mustang that picked up sales. Mustang's 1999 exterior-only redesign sent sales through the roof, though the rest of the car was a carryover save an engine tweak.
While the new 305 horsepower in the base Mustang V6 may not be enough to make it a bigger value than the 300 horse, IRS, 157mph, traffic stopping good looking V6 Camaro, having a Mustang GT with over 410 horspower, nimble handling, and a cost only $400 or so north of the current version makes the upcoming Mustang GT the unquestioned steal-of-a-deal.
IMHO, the upgrades to power and equptment are more than enough to win most of the buyers who (not being Camaro or GM loyalists) to date have either been torn the Camaro SS and Mustang GT, or had any hesitation whatsoever about buying the SS. The performance folks that stoped long enough to ask themselves "Rockstar looks aside, which is really the better car??"
Base form, I'd still say Camaro V6. The interior materials is Hyundai quality (I mean the previous not-so-good-but-good-enough Hyundais, not the current "not bad" ones), and the dash is looking uglier everytime I see it, but nothing on the planet has what it has at the price it's going at.
But....when you move to V8s, as long as Ford shows enough sense not to jack the GT's price up to within a country mile of the SS' $32K, it's looking like the 5.0 is enough to give Mustang GT the upper hand and be a hands down choice that I'd wager will pay off sales.
It's the 1980s.
Ford is selling a Mustang that is more 2 door sedan than sport coupe, whose body (and interior) not only has been around since the fall of 1978, but was lifted intact from the Ford Fairmounts that came out in the fall of 1977.
Meanwhile, Chevrolet is selling a swoopy sports coupe that costs significantly more and weighs a bit more than Mustang, but has newly chisled dead gorgeous looks, a highly sophisticated (for the early 80s) and highly capable chassis.
What did Ford do to even the playing (and sales) field, which kept their somewhat frumpy Mustang on the market from 3 years before the 3rd gen Camaro all the way up till the 2nd year of the 4th gen Camaro?
Fastforward to 2011, and you see a hell of a lot of similarities.
A traffic stopping, high feature Camaro that costs $32K, and a familiar and somewhat more primitive Ford Mustang that is poised to cost $4K less, yet not only keep up with Camaro, but likely surpass it in performance.
Don't use the 4th gen as a yardstick for anything other than the lesson that performance alone doesn't sell. Value, practicality, in a good looking package does. Add performance to that basic package, and you wind up expanding intrest even more. Adding the LS1 and better brakes to the 1998 Camaro normally would have been a winning move to keep sales going. Instead, the 4th gen Camaro itself was flawed to the point (styling, size, and quality) that it was the Mustang that picked up sales. Mustang's 1999 exterior-only redesign sent sales through the roof, though the rest of the car was a carryover save an engine tweak.
While the new 305 horsepower in the base Mustang V6 may not be enough to make it a bigger value than the 300 horse, IRS, 157mph, traffic stopping good looking V6 Camaro, having a Mustang GT with over 410 horspower, nimble handling, and a cost only $400 or so north of the current version makes the upcoming Mustang GT the unquestioned steal-of-a-deal.
IMHO, the upgrades to power and equptment are more than enough to win most of the buyers who (not being Camaro or GM loyalists) to date have either been torn the Camaro SS and Mustang GT, or had any hesitation whatsoever about buying the SS. The performance folks that stoped long enough to ask themselves "Rockstar looks aside, which is really the better car??"
Base form, I'd still say Camaro V6. The interior materials is Hyundai quality (I mean the previous not-so-good-but-good-enough Hyundais, not the current "not bad" ones), and the dash is looking uglier everytime I see it, but nothing on the planet has what it has at the price it's going at.
But....when you move to V8s, as long as Ford shows enough sense not to jack the GT's price up to within a country mile of the SS' $32K, it's looking like the 5.0 is enough to give Mustang GT the upper hand and be a hands down choice that I'd wager will pay off sales.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 184
Given how poor the "Secret" the new 5.0L 410+hp 2011 Mustang GT has been guarded. I would bet that Chevy will have an answer for it. In fact, You can count it.
In fact I've seen some very recent sources that claim Chevy plans to Launch the Ultimate Camaro - A 556 hp Shelby 500GT fighter - The Camaro Z/28 as a 2011 model. Also some other sources claim that GM has been experimenting with a VVT version of the LS3 that makes about 450-470hp. Which would make for a nice performance boost for the Camaro SS.
In fact I've seen some very recent sources that claim Chevy plans to Launch the Ultimate Camaro - A 556 hp Shelby 500GT fighter - The Camaro Z/28 as a 2011 model. Also some other sources claim that GM has been experimenting with a VVT version of the LS3 that makes about 450-470hp. Which would make for a nice performance boost for the Camaro SS.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,808
From: FL/MI
I'm sure all the panels are new, but basic design still looks more of the same than different.
Is this not a 2011?
