Is the Oshawa plant the only one set up for Zeta? Could the weak US dollar/strong loonie have anything to do with the decisions?

 

What's your source for this?

I thought that the only dead ones were the Impala and the G8 wagon?

 

Aren't some of the Holden Zetas supposed to move to Oshawa?

 

Which ones? Right now, G8 is the only other Zeta car besides Camaro confirmed for sale in North America, and they're being imported. I believe the success of the program will dictate whether or not they start building G8 at Oshawa.

Unless I completely missed something....

 

Naw. He's a huge Camaro fan. Just a bit pessimistic.


Here's how I see it.

Zeta is perhaps one of the lowest cost structures GM has made in some time. Compared with other architectures GM has made in recent years, Zeta has the biggest bang for the investment buck. The structure was made to be profitable if only Holden used it. Variations on the structure cost very little.

GM North America isn't the Keystone cops you frequently make them out to be. GM ALWAYS has an alternate plan, and ALWAYS hedges their bets. To us on the outside, it appears that they lurch from 1 direction to another, but in reality they are simply being fluid. Being that it takes years to develop a new vehicle and put it on the market, the MUST be.

GM was debating the RWD vs FWD Impala business since at least last winter. There was even the idea of calling the RWD sedan something else. The case for a RWD Impala was always precarious. You have a FWD car selling at 250,000 per year. Even if only 125,000 is going to retail buyers, there is still money being made off fleet sales. Why tool up for a chassis new to the continent when you can rebody an existing chassis, utilize existing supply lines, and continue selling those numbers? Why risk a drop in sales changing the formula? This was what Impala was up against even before the new CAFE. CAFE just tip the scales to a project that was already moving forward with barely anything more than the desire of Bob Lutz.

As for the Pontiac sedan, it's far from dead. The G8 is already on our shores. It's already committed to be sold here till at least 2012MY (3 years). If it is successful, and/or exceeds expectations, it's ridiculous to think GM won't find a way to sell the next generation. A Buick Zeta sedan had a stronger business case than a Zeta Impala.

I wouldn't write Cadillac off either just yet as well. Here's why.

The big selling point with Zeta is that it's more space efficient in the rear quarters than Sigma can be if both are the same size. Zeta has the ability to have more rear seat room and a larger trunk than Sigma. Zeta is also a much cheaper architecture to manufacture than Sigma, which is why Zeta was going to replace Sigma in the 1st place and was the 1st choice for a roomy large Cadillac over Sigma. The argument is that GM would make more money per car using Zeta over Sigma, with no penalty in weight (remember, this is Cadillac and the new Sigma STS is already 2 tons) and therefore no fuel economy penalty.

Ditto Buick. There is a chance we might get ours from China (GM already floated that option by dealers turned it down, remarkably), but I still wouldn't discount it completely as a top model Buick.

About Alpha, it was said already that too much is being put on to and expected out of Alpha, and I agree. Again here's why.

Alpha is a spinoff of the Kappa. It's purpose is to offer a smaller rear drive platform for use both in Europe & Australia and potentially as a sports chassis here in the US. Like the Kappa, this IS NOT being engineered to take a V8 engine. Therefore, the structure is lighter, the components are lighter, and it's planned to be a great handling architecture. Add a V8, and the whole project makes no sense whatsoever and is dead in it's tracks.

Now that CAFE has been approved, it solidifies Alpha's use here in the US which up until CAFE was still a guess (yet another reason CAFE did some good). Cadillac will use it on it's BLS here, but it's also seeming going to other divisions here as well. Namely Saturn and Pontiac.

Regarding a 6th gen Camaro, I think it's a given that this chassis will be the 5th gen's replacement. It's all just speculation at this point, but it's safe to say volume oriented, 6.2 liter, 425 horsepower, 3700 pound, 4 passenger sport coupes probally won't be around much past the middle of next decade. But if there is still a demand for RWD sport coupes and it can be made profitably, GM is no doubt going to make them. Even if that means nothing bigger than a turbo 4 or a DI V6.

The real meat of the CAFE standards don't kick in till about 2014-2015. About that time, we're going to see some real changes in the cars we drive. Till then, we'll still see V8s (though possibly restricted somewhat in sales or prices jacked up), and RWD will still be alive.

 

What's the chances GM will also fight this CAFE fight from the bottom end as well (with trying to build more Aveo volume, and other new sub-compact/high MPG volume throughout the company)?

 

Reading the posts of GM employee Pontiac Custom-S at Cheers and Gears makes me agree with Z284ever's post above on the future of Zeta.

 

Hey Guy, I know you mean that in a good way....

 

Actually Alpha will be all new, and is likely to go through some changes before all is said and done.

The prospects of volume oriented, 6.2L, 4,100 pound sedans are even less bright.

That's why I'm hoping the 5th gen sells like gangbusters even if it has a short run.

 

3700 pounds eh?

Personally, and I'm going to be the snob here, I would rather not see an official 6th Generation of Camaro if it means no V8 option in the line. I know I know, a DI V6 could be quite potent, especially in a smaller, lighter architecture.....but the purist in me says "no way". Call it something else.

 

I'm not even going to say 6th gen until GM actually puts the 5th out and releases all the details. And I still feel the zeta cars we do get will fail.

 

Well, we'll see. Everything on that right now is pure speculation. There are all sorts of thing floating around, like the next Corvette will lose 300-400 pounds and carry a smaller V8. Who knows.

V8 powered cars will be under pressure for Ford and Chrysler too.

 

I bet Mustang will always have a V8.

 

Hard to imagine where that would come from, especially when you read All Corvettes are Red you see how obsessive they were for every ounce of weight on the C5. And it definitely paid off ... Corvettes are pretty much the lightest cars in their class. Even when cost becomes less of a concern like on the ZO6 or ZR1, they're still not getting a 300-400 pound reduction (assuming equal powertrains).

 

I bet the Camaro always will too . The new one is over a year away from going on sale ...its just a wee bit early to start cannibalizing the 6th gen