Sorry but a Camaro, Corvette or Mustang are not those names w/o a V8!
To me I say let the Camaro, Mustang or Corvette names pass quietly into the night if they all don't have access to a V8. Sorry but no DI V6 will ever invoke the passion these brands thrive on for sales like the V8. Call the Camaro a Panther if you’re only going to offer V6's.
I just can't see GM killing the V8 just because of CAFE. I go back to the idea that V6 Silverado's and V8 Silverado's get nearly the same mileage because the V8 doesn't work as hard. I just don't see GM dropping full size trucks, V8's or the Corvette and so it leaves the door always open for the Camaro. I wouldn't mind a gas guzzler charge on V8 Camaros or full size trucks but there is a reason to keep the V8 around. They offer more work capacity.
Because it’s not that V6's can't make the power look at the GTR, but I think there is a diminished return when you have to tweak the engine so hard just to get V8 power from less cubic inches. (Torque) I always think back to why the CTS-V went with an LS6 over the Northstar. Because that engine would really need to be pushed to produce what the larger displacement engine did with ease. Sure there is other reasons cost and development but if want bigger power like Caddy did it was either a supercharger on the Northstar or go with the LS6. And that’s already comparing two V8’s, one with 281ci the other 346. Imagine what engine work would needed to be done for a V6, even DI. The V6's in performance vehicles will be working so hard they won't get any better gas mileage and then what's the point. Notwithstanding lower vehicle weight but that’s always the X-factor.

 

I think the issue with throwing a V8 into a "6th Gen Camaro" would ultimately be a matter of volume and allocating resources. The issue is if you base this off a theoretical Alpha that is only going to accept 4- and 6-cylinder engines because the volume is too low and the weight too heavy to justify a bigger RWD platform just for Camaro. They're not going to build a Zeta 2 just to sell you guys a Camaro with a V8.

The other entirely significant issue is limiting volume of bigger powerplants. This is the stalemate. With CAFE the way it is, and truck sales and trucks' inherent nature being heavy profitable beasts, they are going to have to sacrifice areas of the product plan, or at least take a good hard look at what needs to change to adapt better. If they sell the Camaro V8 at any good number of volume, say around 60k, which is likely if it's sold for around 29k they are planning the current version at, then this will hurt the CAFE average and decrease the number of trucks being sold. Just like an Impala V8 would have not helped the average at all either.

Now, OTOH, if Alpha was to be reengineered just to accomodate a V8, that would only power a Camaro, and sell at a prohibitively high price or be artificially limited in production, you're spending all this money to reengineer a platform that will only serve maybe 10k customers a year. This is an issue of money. The greater consequence is this platform perhaps loses focus in being engineered to accomodate a V8 engine's broader torque and power levels. I don't know if that's entirely true, but it seems to be what I've gathered from various discussions on Zeta and such. By building a Camaro V8 on Alpha, you lose a lot of the platform's focus, a platform previously designed to accept 6 and 4 cylinder only and be a lightweight.

In some ways though, I feel this is a circuitous discussion because the overwhelming point I see is that GM could spend the money to make Zeta accomodate both hybrids and better engine tech to bring the mileage numbers up. AND the big part about these regulations not taking place for another decade! But I guess GM figures they must ween the customers off thier big car and big truck appetite, or they want to be as thoroughly ready as possible. or they just want to kill zeta.

 

No one from GM has put Alpha and Camaro in the same discussion. It is only wishful thinking by certain members of this website.

 

Woohoo! First 6th gen arguments right here.

 

This could be part of the solution by helping to keep Zeta with us longer and perhaps a zeta2.

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums...howtopic=22183

 

Well the US does love trucks, and the plant seems it will have plenty of excess capacity. Possibly even enough for export to Aus?

 

Oh, really?

 

From AN:

By RICK KRANZ, AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

The Chevrolet Corvette will live on despite tougher fuel economy rules. But the redesigned car, expected in about 2012, could be lighter and smaller than today's Corvette.

And the V8 that powers the Corvette of the future may be smaller than the one used today.

"I don't think we're going to design a 700-hp Corvette," Tom Wallace, vehicle line executive for the Corvette, said at the Detroit auto show. "What's going to be more important is fuel economy, carbon footprint and green. We have already paid a lot of attention to those areas. Where we can pay more attention is pounds per horsepower."

Two engines are offered for the 2008 model year, a 430-hp 6.2-liter V8 and a 505-hp 7.0-liter V8. The 2009 ZR1 features a 620-plus hp supercharged 6.2-liter V8.

Wallace won't talk about specifics of the next-generation Corvette. But he said if the car's weight was dropped by 300 to 400 pounds and a 4.7-liter V-8 is offered with 150 fewer horsepower than the 2008 models, the "pounds per horsepower are the same."

Wallace said he envisions a Corvette that is "more fuel efficient ... even nimbler than it was before. But he said no decision has been made about horsepower or engine size.

The 2009 ZR1 will have a top speed over 200 mph.

Rather than trying to top those performance numbers, Wallace said: "I think we need to say, 'We reached performance levels that are pretty good. Let's maintain those and improve fuel economy.' "

 

Could well be, it seems that thought has crossed a few GM minds already.

That would make it easier to import other versions from Aus. as well, negating the exchange issue on a one to one basis. As long as the CAFE panic doesn't cloud judgement.

The best part is the potential for this to get some people out of their 1/2 ton trucks/suvs. If successful enough, that could really help the CAFE numbers.

 

Actually the converse importation is better than a 1:1 basis b/c the Aus dollar is higher than the US dollar. By exporting a few of these to Aus, China, or the middle east GM would make more per car than the models coming into the US from Aus would cost.

Think of it this way: for every 2 crewman GM would sell outside of the US they could import 3 Aus built models into the US.

 

With 150 less hp it would actually need to be 1000lbs lighter to have the same power to weight as an 08 C6.

 

I agree. I would think the Corvette and Camaro will always have a V8 (assuming the 5th gen sells well) model, just like the 'Stang probably could too. If CAFE really does stand and crunch hard, there probably wont be as many sold/built but that few number of V8's would hardly dent the CAFE avg of GM's fleet.

I also would hope the Camaro/Mustang continue to adapt to the times. We've had 4 banger pony cars before so I dont see an issue with V6 DI or turbo 6 pony cars. I'd still like to see a V8 model, maybe rare, but at least its there.

All that said, I think we all just need to wait and see what plays out. We've been thru "doom and gloom" gas crisis and CAFE changes before when all seemed lost. With hybrid tech advancing and electric cars becoming more reality than fantasy, theres alot more options this time around...

 

Camaro has been available with a 6-cylinder during its entire existence, and it even had a 4 for a few years in the '80s.

I'd be fine with a modern 300hp V6 3250 pound Camaro. It would be nice to have a V8 option, perhaps a la IS-F, where they extend the hood and front end a bit to make it fit, but it doesn't have to be cheap.

I know a lot of people want a 300hp V8 more than a 300hp V6, but it's just not practical, for the same reason you only get 4 cylinders for 160hp engines today, whereas it was sixes 10-20 years ago and v8s 25-30 years ago.

Building more cylinders than you need for a given power output adds weight and cost while reducing MPG for no benefit (okay, you get a V8 soundtrack, but that's not enough), and that's a luxury that no one can afford these days.

Of course, people on this forum don't need to be realistic, but it'd be nice to see some thought rather than the knee-jerk "If it's not 8 cylinders I'll never buy another GM car again" pout, which is just silly.

 

Yes, if you do the math, it's clear he probably meant 50 less hp, because you'd also hope to get more than 280hp out of a 4.7.

I chalk this up to not doing precise calculations off the top of his head when he was talking to the reporter.

 

Again lots of speculation here - but an Alpha Camaro is very feasible, especially since I think the 5th gen will share the 1st gen's production length with it's 1st gen design inspiration. I can imagine lots of Ecotec powered Alpha Camaros though. Normally aspirated and turbo. If weight is reasonable, I think the Ecotecs would do a nice job.

And a V6 - or not. But man, I sure hope it's package protected for a V8.