Holden Commodore = Pontiac G8 CONFIRMED
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01-10-2007, 09:29 AM
#48
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That's what I don't get. When the GTO program was conceived the Australian dollar was somewhere between 50 and 60 cents. Now it's around 80 cents.
If the GTO had to sell in the low $30,000s to have a chance at profitibility, how can the Commodore, 4 years later, with a 40% stronger dollar, and a likely more expense car to build, hope to sell for less? I suppose a V6 model would help a little, although the HFV6 is not any cheaper to build than an LSx, and the article specifically mentioned the Commodore SS.
If the GTO had to sell in the low $30,000s to have a chance at profitibility, how can the Commodore, 4 years later, with a 40% stronger dollar, and a likely more expense car to build, hope to sell for less? I suppose a V6 model would help a little, although the HFV6 is not any cheaper to build than an LSx, and the article specifically mentioned the Commodore SS.
Still, the question is, can they bring a V8 Commodore here for mid 20's? Tough one. Certainly not the SS-V, but maybe the lower content, cloth seat SS.
We'll also see if Pontiac dealers screw the pooch on this one - again.
Also, I'm not sure how much I like the G8 name, but I'm thinking it's time to give the Grand Prix name a little break, before every last bit of equity has been squeezed out of it. What started out as Pontiac's premiere, high style, luxury/performance coupe, has de-evolved into Pontiac's generic rental sedan.
Last edited by Z284ever; 01-10-2007 at 09:42 AM.
01-10-2007, 01:00 PM
#50
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But even more important is that Holden stands to make a nice amount of money when Pontiac gets the sedan.
Like certain cars here, Holden sold a huge portion of their cars at cut-rate levels to fleet buyers. Right now, VE's overall sales numbers are down sharply because Holden isn't cutting deals for volume purchases anymore (though retail sales are relatively flat. If Holden sells a massive number of sedans via Pontiac at retail prices, they're certain to make far more money while bringing their factory back up to full production (they're operating at something like 65-70% last I heard) and 3 shifts (currently working just 2 with a large number of the workers hired for GTO and high VY & VZ demand layed off).
01-10-2007, 01:44 PM
#51
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If the GTO had to sell in the low $30,000s to have a chance at profitibility, how can the Commodore, 4 years later, with a 40% stronger dollar, and a likely more expense car to build, hope to sell for less? I suppose a V6 model would help a little, although the HFV6 is not any cheaper to build than an LSx, and the article specifically mentioned the Commodore SS.
Right now GM sells something like 75,000 no-profit plastic-fantastic Grand Prixs to fleets.
Why not sell 50,000 no-profit kick-*** G8s to consumers instead?
The financial impact would be the same, but the latter would enhance Pontiac's reputation rather than diminishing it.
(And thanks for the thanks on the 'shop. Took me all of 5 minutes
)
01-10-2007, 01:48 PM
#52
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That's what I keep telling people who care to listen to my logical reason... why do a pair of Levi denim jeans cost $US30 and we Aussies must fork out $AU130?
We pay more for our cars in Australia, not because of economies of scale IMO, but because our perception of value is lower than that of the US consumer... in other words we are prepared to pay more for the same item, and hence, vendors are prepared to charge more.
When is colonial Australia going to break itself free from Mother England?!?!?
We pay more for our cars in Australia, not because of economies of scale IMO, but because our perception of value is lower than that of the US consumer... in other words we are prepared to pay more for the same item, and hence, vendors are prepared to charge more.
When is colonial Australia going to break itself free from Mother England?!?!?
01-10-2007, 02:07 PM
#53
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Golden State
Posts: 13,711
That's what I don't get. When the GTO program was conceived the Australian dollar was somewhere between 50 and 60 cents. Now it's around 80 cents.
If the GTO had to sell in the low $30,000s to have a chance at profitibility, how can the Commodore, 4 years later, with a 40% stronger dollar, and a likely more expense car to build, hope to sell for less? I suppose a V6 model would help a little, although the HFV6 is not any cheaper to build than an LSx, and the article specifically mentioned the Commodore SS.
If the GTO had to sell in the low $30,000s to have a chance at profitibility, how can the Commodore, 4 years later, with a 40% stronger dollar, and a likely more expense car to build, hope to sell for less? I suppose a V6 model would help a little, although the HFV6 is not any cheaper to build than an LSx, and the article specifically mentioned the Commodore SS.
The car was designed to be profitable selling just 5,000 cars over a 3 year period.
The amount invested to make the Monaro into a US GTO was roughly the same minute $68 million that it cost to make the Monaro out of the Commodore, meaning it also would need to sell 5,000 per year to be worth while.
Monaro ran 5 years at 5,000 cars per year, GTO ran 3 years at about 14,500 cars average.
Instead of selling a total of 30,000 Monaro/GTOs to make the whole thing profitable, over 68,500 were sold.
Assembly line costs were neglible, and for all intents and purposes, content costs came right out of Commodore. Essentially, the only real costs over a Commodore (+/- $22-30K) was the cost of the actual development, which was paid for more than twice over.
The VE was set up to be profitable in just the Australian market (the WM on the other hand wouldn't exist without the export market). Unlike the Commodore/Monaro/GTO, it was made from the 1st bolt to pass US regs, so no additional cash outside the cost of testing is needed to certify.
In short, you're spending considerably less to create a car than before (which was minimal) based on a car that supposedly costs less to build, than the increase of the Aussie dollar, and still stand a chance to make a bigger profit.
It most certainly won't cost in the mid 20K the article is hinting at, but it should be on par with a Grand Prix GTP's $28-31K pricetag.
01-10-2007, 02:48 PM
#54
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Wow. If that's the way it shakes out, the Charger is going to look really overpriced.
01-10-2007, 09:59 PM
#55
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Location: Santa Clara, CA
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Tundra/desert take up roughly the same percentage of space. In Canada, most people live near the southern border. In Australia, most people live near the coast.
There's no equivalent to Quebec in Australia, however.
01-12-2007, 05:42 AM
#57
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Location: The Golden State
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I doubt there will be a V6 version available here because I imagine GM would keep options to a minimum again to save costs. This is just personal opinion, not definitive. If a V6 did make it here, it's going to be the cammer 3.6 since it's going to be in similar cars here in a few years. Also, if it did make it here, I can see it priced in the mid 20s. But not the V8s.
Although I'm probally going to be outnumbered, I'm not a big fan of the SS, and even less a fan of the HSV version. the body is already on the edge of being overstyled (trust me, pictures don't convey that) and adding wings and spoilers make it look ricey... especially in that retina melting red. But it will be a great competitor to the Charger SRT.
The Berlina, on the other hand, in black or dark blue, easily looks like a car James bond would use as a daily driver. It has BMW elegence, but is styled alot better. It looks striking with it's side windows fully framed in chrome trim, sculptured body, wedge shape, and front overhang that's almost nonexistant.
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