Unchanged since 94? where have you been since 1999? look at a 94 Cobra and 2003 and tell me the styling is identical. The top half of the roof and the interior is about all they have in common, nothing else. The body is otherwise completly different. A 4 year old can tell the difference. There's no mistaking the 2. The 2 are distinctive. You'd run a higher chance of mistaking the GTO for a Grand Prix then mistaking an 03 cobra for a 94 cobra.

Cause there really isn't anything to talk about. A few isolated cases of "some" owners experiencing some problems and speculation on the plant closing for 2 weeks is all we have for facts. There has been no recalls or "known" serious quality issues or problems to date.

Hmm, i guess GM's new cars have never had problems there 1st year in production. I guess Ford and the Cobra must be the only exception. How many cases of that front misalignment other then that 1 we read on the boards? Good job on taking 1 or a few cases and applying it to the whole cobra lineup.

Try not to think too hard. Close to 500rwhp with just bolts and 134mph trap speeds with bolt ons and 100 shot sounds fairly hard to you? How about an engine with forged internals? and to think that guys are running faster then z06 and vipers with just pulleys, exhaust, and slicks. The 2003 cobra has already proven itself. There are already simple power or BPU packages out in the market already.

Try to look past those GM blinders from time to time.

 

Oh man what a tease!
I don't care even if it is an LS1 engine in it, I plan on buying one just so we can get the Camaro back in the future.
I also want to know what kind of quality this car is going to have in the interior No1's said anything about that yet so I'm guessing not good...
And what about T-tops/conv./moon roof, will it have any of these? I hate having a car w/out being able to see the sky while driving :-D

 

I'll agree here... In fact, I'll go as far as saying that as far a mid-life freshenings go, the 98 to 99 Stang changes are some of the best... not really even based on looks, but more on the fact that is was more than just new front and rear bumpers. I'll hand it to Ford here...

But you are really reaching here... (And I am on record as feeling GTO, from the sketch, looks too much like a GP, but you are reaching...)

 

What he means is that the GM small block V8 has been proven for years, we KNOW it can take the mods and still run fine for years. The new "ford grenade " has only been around a few months and we don't know how many mods or how long the engine can take theses mods for yet...hence the word "grenade".

 

I know what he meant, i just didn't agree with it. Like you said, we really don't know, so is it right to ASSUME that it couldn't be reliable and upgradgable? Guys are already making leaps and bounds with just simple bolt ons and the engine with it's forged internals and iron block looks to be fairly sturdy. And the Cobra even has the right tranny to back up the engine up (T56). From my prospective, the powertrain looks fairly good and has room to grow upon in terms of HP. The potential is there and there is no denying it.

Now there's also rumors that the GTO might come out with a new GEN smallblock.That is if i read right. There should be a topic floating around. There's a possible "new" GM smallblock for you. Also, what exactly do the 1st and 2nd gen 5.7L small blocks have in common with the Ls-1's 3rd gen Chevy small block? very little. So it is in a way and all new engine.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. It's just that so many guys are ready to jump to a negative conclusion on everything mustang or ford related simply because they don't like it. I am arguing against that.

The GTO looks to be an excellent car.

 

The interior quality of the Monaros are excellent! I can say that because I've been in them. The only GM car in North America that comes close is the CTS, but it feels more like something from Europe. It's not Mercedes quality, but it at least compares to Volvo. If nothing was loss in the transformation to left hand drive, I think alot of people will be surprized and everyone will see exactly what I mean when I say Mustang's interior is junk by comparison.

As far as convertible or t-tops, there is none, and I wouldn't expect one. Structurally Monaros are tanks, and some of that I suspect comes from those railings just above the doors. I remember a moon roof being available though. I don't see why it wouldn't be on GTO, being that everything else on GTO seems to be standard.

 

quote from RE 5.0:

Perhaps you could benefit from reading and recalling my words correctly: I said "styling largely unchanged" not identical. Sure - it got some new sheetmetal in 94. But the entire greenhouse is the same (including the "cute" little curve in the C pillar, which I dislike)... front and rear clip profiles are the same, with a few new creases in the sheetmetal... interior about the same... (NOT EXACTLY THE SAME)... Steering wheel, the same (IMHO needs stereo controls like many GM's already have)... etc.

No doubt about it - the styling is popular - after all the Mustang is not the one whose production was terminated. And score one for Ford for bringing back the Mach I, and the shaker hood. But last time I checked, I did not have to ooh and ahh over every performance car out there... and I happen to not like the looks of the current Mustang. The last Mustangs I really liked the looks of were the 93's. I do like the concept drawing I saw of the Mustang resembling a 68 fastback. I hope it comes to be... we shall see. Speaking of...

This I disagree with on two fronts. One, no one really knows what a real 2004 GTO looks like yet do they? Or perhaps you are somehow privileged to have seen one Two, even going by what little we have all seen so far, I don't see much similarity in the looks of the GTO concept pix and the current Prix (not to mention the 2004 Prix, for which there is NO COUPE you know). The front and rear overhangs are much shorter on the Monaro/GTO, for one thing. The wheel openings are smaller on the Monaro/GTO too. I could go on but this is getting a little off topic.

As for quality... there haven't been a heck of a lot of 03 Cobras produced you know. So even a few significant problems really stand out. In the thread over on Stangnet where one owner relayed his long and frustrating saga in getting his I-love-the-ditch Cobra replaced, a couple other owners also chimed in with a similar problem, IIRC. Same with threads on the assorted other maladies, etc. Who knows how many Cobra owners were too embarrassed to post, concerned about being able to sell their lemon, or don't even visit the web. As for "speculation on the plant closing for 2 weeks is all we have" - I hope you are referring to the confusion as to the exact nature of the QUALITY deficiency which caused Ford to shut down production and stop deliveries for several weeks:

http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosins...d01-626166.htm

I can't help but think they need a new spokesman at Ford, one who doesn't say "It was something that was caught at the plant and it's something that hopefully has been resolved"

One last bit of advice on reading my posts - I was referring to which engine is safer to mod, not which could give maximum or higher hp than the other. It's great if Cobra owners are getting these wunnerful trap speeds... let them take all the risks... I just wouldn't want to be one of them needing to go back to the dealer after putting a pulley on and suffering internal damage. I predict Ford dealers are going to be very tough about warranty violations and fraud, especially after the mysterious production shutdown. BTW as an example of what you can do with the proven pushrod LS1 and a simple heads/cam package:

http://xs-fx.com/raughammer/

10.66, 124 MPH. 100-shot NOS? Who needs it?

And speaking of forged internals... hey we LS1 owners have some of that too:

http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls1c.html

If the new GTO isn't as quick as the new Cobra in stock form, I predict all it will take is headers/cutout or worst case, heads/cam to put it over the top!

 

Just a clarification...
Ford is planning on building and selling 12,000 '03 Cobras, not 6,500. This figure has been stated and reiterated several times by Ford management. I do believe they are only planning around 6-7,000 Mach I's.
Also,
The "chronic front end" alignment problem affected how many cars? One? Two? C'mon...at least be truthful about it. One guy posts about it on the internet, and suddenly it's "chronic"?
The "cooked cats" also affected only a few cars. Ford ultimately tracked it to bad gas being put in the cars as they came off the assembly line. Funny...I have seen nor heard anything about this since about 2 weeks after production started.
The production line interruption sure gives the Ford-haters plenty of ammunition. Despite the fact that the "quality concern" wasn't disclosed, nor did it affect any cars that got to customers, and that it was grossly over dramatized all over the internet, there are those that will point and say, "See, I told you so!".
I'm still wondering where all these pullied/chipped '03 Cobras are that were supposed to blow the engine to bits the instant the key was turned. Seems that prediction turned out to be a red herring. These cars, even with a pulley, chip, exhaust and other mods maintain a safe A/F ratio and have withstood the abuse of drag racers everywhere.
The '03 Cobra is a helluva' car that is living up to it's hype all over the country. GM should take some lessons on how to market and sell a car to make GM fans happy.
S.

 

Hmm maybe people are misunderstanding my use of the word 'chronic' - by that I mean that on the car(s) with the problem, MANY remedies can be tried but virtually none are effective. I am not trying to imply that thousands of Cobras have the problem. But gads, what a nightmare if YOU are the one with the problem. A busted engine - simple, drop in another. Loud, leaking differential? Bolt on a new Ford part. But what does one do about chronic misalignment? I would HATE that happening to me. That was my point.

Snorman. "A few cars with this... a few with that". This reminds me of the quote from a US Senator several years back: "A billion $ here, a billion there... pretty soon we're talking real money!" That is, all these things cropping up on "a few cars" add up to a trend, one that needs to be addressed by Ford (and one I believe is being addressed BTW).

On the mysterious shutdown. It would bug me a lot if I was considering buying a new Cobra today. If it was a simple problem of adding the wrong fuel at the plant... I would think Ford would jump on the chance to announce that. Instead, we have an uneasy silence... reminiscent of the 1999 overrated Cobra fiasco.

Everywhere? The above statement cannot be proven by you, unless you work for Ford and have access to all records of all Cobras produced and sold, as well as all races on all tracks and streets. Even then, how do you know, really, that one or many owners haven't damaged their engine and quietly gotten it repaired at their own expense, being too ashamed to admit it?

If you can make the statement, so can I: "The LS1, even with heads, cam, exhaust and other mods maintain a safe A/F ratio and have withstood the abuse of drag racers everywhere." I imagine we can soon make that statement for GTO owners too!

 

ROTFLMAO! This would be funny were it not so ironic. You point to internet posts as support for your "inferior Ford quality" argument, yet when there are no posts about modded '03's blowing engines (as you have predicted many times they would), you downplay the fact by hinting owners would be too embarrassed to post. You're kidding, right?
So an '03 Cobra owner will post about an alignment problem, or a clogged cat, or a check engine light, but the guy who is an enthusiast and modifies his car, only to pop the engine, will slink into the shadows and tell nobody?
I'm sure that there will be blown '03 motors. Any motor, even your almightly LS1, can sustain damage once modified (in the LS1's case, it often doesn't even take modifications...i.e. abnormally high oil consumption, bent pushrods, fragged clutches). And yes, modded LS1's have withstood abuse, but those that predicted broken '03 Cobras on every street corner or at every dragstrip have been brutally proven wrong.
And my statement can't be disproven by you. Post a link to a thread about a blown '03 motor that was modded. Heck, post a link to a blown '03 motor that was stock.
As for the stoppage, you read this?
"Regular" process on the assembly line. IMO, that jackass at BON (Robert Lane, the disgruntled ex-Ford employee) caught wind of this and mounted a PR initiative to again attempt to discredit Ford. It's fine to be imaginative, and pretend that it was some big cover up by Ford and that they are hiding some major engineering flaw, but it's also just as likely it was a loose cam cover bolt. Or a bad batch of plug wires. Or maybe a faulty serpentine belt.
This "trend" is a figment of an overactive imagination.
S.

 

Perhaps you could benefit from reading and recalling my words correctly: I said "styling largely unchanged" not identical. Sure - it got some new sheetmetal in 94. But the entire greenhouse is the same (including the "cute" little curve in the C pillar, which I dislike)...

Uh... That changed from 94-98 to 99+ (Both the c-pillars and rear side windows change.) They are also unique on Bullitt and Mach1 editions.

So there have been THREE different greenhouses.

I'm still not sure how the styling is "largely unchanged" when they only share door handles, door lock, gas caps windshields and front side glass. Everything else is different outside. One car is round, the other is angular, but they do both look like a Mustang. If you were talking about the new Navigator/Expedition compared to the old, you may have something, but not here...


Steering wheel, the same (IMHO needs stereo controls like many GM's already have)... etc.

IMHO, needs a steering wheel with a smaller, stylish hub - maybe a 3-spoke, like a Sports Car. Leave the buttons on the wheel for luxury cruisers and boulevarders. If the ergonomics are good (not that current Mustang ergonomics are good), they are unnecessary. Plus it is added weight and cost.

 

The cobra due to its supercharged motor might be faster than the GTO ( but thats not final yet ).

one thing that is for sure is the GTO will have the Cobra beat in handling / seating / interior space / functionality / design / driver position / gear stick position / ergonomics / quality of build / aerodynamics etc etc ... its just a better overall car.

and once you see the car in the flesh, you could possibly add looks to that list depending on your tastes, (everyone that has been to OZ has done an instant backflip in their attitude of how the car looks in real life.)

i mean the mustang out-sold the f-body all these years whilst beeing slower thus being the fastest isnt the only determining factor for buying a car... although its pretty paramount for me personally !!

 

But you see, 90% of my friends hate the new GTO. They think it loks too much like a Dodge Stratus with Grand Am sheetmetal. The other 10% of my friends think the car is *OK*. My friends are in the 18-24 year old age group.

However, my dad hates the new GTO as well. He thinks the styling is unoriginal and plain. I still have to get some more opinions of older people.

 

Because your friends and your dad have all seen the finished product?

For all we know the GTO could be an Aztec with an LS1 in it.

 

The 2003 Cobra's production run is very expanded (they started in May & will continue till late fall next year). There is no 2004 Cobra currently planned since 2004 production will be only half a year or less.

Even so, 12,000 Cobras over a year and a half production vs 18,000 GTOs over 12 months is still a pretty sizable margin.