GT-R lap times exposed?
09-30-2008, 08:55 AM
#1
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GT-R lap times exposed?
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/30/p...ting-the-ring/
Hmmmmm....
Porsche accuses Nissan GT-R of cheating the 'Ring
Sour grapes or legitimate complaint? That's the question we're left pondering after reading that Porsche believes Nissan must have cheated to record its 7:29:03 lap time of the famed Nürburgring race circuit. Porsche claims that it had been suspicious of the Nissan's lap times, so it acquired a U.S.-spec GT-R for testing back-to-back with its own 911 Turbo and GT2. The result? The mighty Godzilla was toppled by the Teutonic German duo, with the GT-R posting times a good 25-seconds slower than Nissan's claim.
How can Porsche explain the discrepancy? "This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car. For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tires," says August Achleitner, the man in charge of the 911 program. There is footage of the GT-R lapping the 'Ring at high speed, but it's taken from inside the car where the tires cannot be seen.
Considering the fact that Nissan saw fit to issue a press release commemorating the car's fast-lap, we doubt this is something that will be taken lightly. There's a big can 'o worms here, and Porsche's in the corner holding the opener.
Sour grapes or legitimate complaint? That's the question we're left pondering after reading that Porsche believes Nissan must have cheated to record its 7:29:03 lap time of the famed Nürburgring race circuit. Porsche claims that it had been suspicious of the Nissan's lap times, so it acquired a U.S.-spec GT-R for testing back-to-back with its own 911 Turbo and GT2. The result? The mighty Godzilla was toppled by the Teutonic German duo, with the GT-R posting times a good 25-seconds slower than Nissan's claim.
How can Porsche explain the discrepancy? "This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car. For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tires," says August Achleitner, the man in charge of the 911 program. There is footage of the GT-R lapping the 'Ring at high speed, but it's taken from inside the car where the tires cannot be seen.
Considering the fact that Nissan saw fit to issue a press release commemorating the car's fast-lap, we doubt this is something that will be taken lightly. There's a big can 'o worms here, and Porsche's in the corner holding the opener.
09-30-2008, 09:23 AM
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Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.
Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.
It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.
"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.
"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."
He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.
Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.
He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.
"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.
Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.
But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.
The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.
Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.
"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.
"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."
In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.
"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.
- Herald Sun
Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.
It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.
"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.
"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."
He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.
Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.
He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.
"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.
Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.
But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.
The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.
Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.
"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.
"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."
In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.
"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.
- Herald Sun
09-30-2008, 11:17 AM
#8
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The only reason that this debate has gone as high at Porsche corporate actually going out and buying a GTR and testing it themselves is because Nissan used the Ring time as a marketing tool and published the times with a video on their site.
Had this just been an rumor or internet debate as to what the times were and how they were achieved and Nissan didn't expose their figures for the world to see and scrutinize then this would never have happened at such a high level.
They asked for this and during their development of the GTR as they made no reservations about what famed German make they were gunning for when they brought the car to Germany.
I hope Porsche puts out their test of the cars because running the 911 turbo and GT2 on the same day as the GTR is probably the best comparison yet of any two vehicles at that track.
Had this just been an rumor or internet debate as to what the times were and how they were achieved and Nissan didn't expose their figures for the world to see and scrutinize then this would never have happened at such a high level.
They asked for this and during their development of the GTR as they made no reservations about what famed German make they were gunning for when they brought the car to Germany.
I hope Porsche puts out their test of the cars because running the 911 turbo and GT2 on the same day as the GTR is probably the best comparison yet of any two vehicles at that track.
09-30-2008, 12:15 PM
#9
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,881
The only reason that this debate has gone as high at Porsche corporate actually going out and buying a GTR and testing it themselves is because Nissan used the Ring time as a marketing tool and published the times with a video on their site.
Had this just been an rumor or internet debate as to what the times were and how they were achieved and Nissan didn't expose their figures for the world to see and scrutinize then this would never have happened at such a high level.
They asked for this and during their development of the GTR as they made no reservations about what famed German make they were gunning for when they brought the car to Germany.
I hope Porsche puts out their test of the cars because running the 911 turbo and GT2 on the same day as the GTR is probably the best comparison yet of any two vehicles at that track.
Had this just been an rumor or internet debate as to what the times were and how they were achieved and Nissan didn't expose their figures for the world to see and scrutinize then this would never have happened at such a high level.
They asked for this and during their development of the GTR as they made no reservations about what famed German make they were gunning for when they brought the car to Germany.
I hope Porsche puts out their test of the cars because running the 911 turbo and GT2 on the same day as the GTR is probably the best comparison yet of any two vehicles at that track.
