The standing start would indicate to me how well the vehicle launches and indicates its stability at lower speeds while accelerating.

But I don't routinely drive high power cars or have much experience with them, so keep that in mind.

 

So here is Edmonds take on what? All they say is the car ran a 7:29 in dry conditions and shaved 9 seconds off it's wet/dry lap from Sept. 2007. Did you watch this video? There is some serious question to how Nissan timed the lap.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uGe_fyhQazg

Can you honestly say that Nissan started and stopped the famed 7:38:54 lap at the same spot?
It would be like counting a Indy 500 qualifying lap from the start/finish line to the enterance of pit lane.
TO me this lap needs an asterisk next to it like Barry Bonds HR record!

Just using my own "timing" from the 1:01 point to 1:07 point on "THEIR" own film seems to show the time it took the GTR to move down the short pit straight on their flying lap from where they started the lap to when they stopped it. Would it not be fair to add 6 seconds to their lap time or because that puts the car behind the Z06 not necessary?

Apply physics correctly?? Or just move the start finish line... I'm very interested to see the 7:29 lap.

 

How about a quick show of hands - who here is hypothesizing about the performance of these vehicles without ever having step foot on the 'ring? Who here has driven a 500+ HP car on any road course for the purpose of recording lap times? Just curious...

 

Date posted: 05-02-2008

DETROIT — Nissan was so proud of the GT-R's production-car lap-record run of 7:29 on the Nürburgring Nordschleife that CEO Carlos Ghosn personally delivered the news to journalists gathered in Portugal.

It must be sweet for Ghosn who championed the GT-R when Nissan was in dire financial trouble. And trumping Chevrolet's double-barrel announcements last week regarding the Corvette ZR1's outrageous 638-hp output and its 205-mph top speed, doesn't hurt either.

But wait, didn't we quote Corvette Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter as saying that the ZR1 "will be able to take the production-car track record at any racetrack"? Yes, we did. What we didn't mention was that in the same interview, Juechter said that, while the company didn't yet have a full-production ZR1 to test at Nürburgring's old track, he confidently predicted the super-Vette would do the deed in "Seven minutes, twenty-something seconds."

Hey, is that a gauntlet we see there on the ground? Anyone care to pick that up? (We're looking directly at you, Chevy.)

What this means to you: In the grand scheme, a car's lap time of a wicked, old German racetrack might not mean much. Except that we all know it does. — Daniel Pund, Senior Editor, Detroit

 

I appreciate your thoughtful and scientific analysis.

Frankly, however, I think you are just not happy that the "Vette doesn't hold the record for the moment and that there is nothing Nissan or anybody else could do or say that would "satisfy" your objections until such time as a Corvette (or at least a GM vehicle) regains the record (for a short time since all records fall).

 

There you go again...asking questions most folks don't want to answer...how rude of you!

 

Your appreciation is not needed, but noted.
No GM car including the Vette has ever had the production car record at the Ring and they still don't. I didn't lose any sleep before nor will I now. Don't try to sidestep the question here with some pro-GM hooey and nonsense. We both know our biases and know what side of the line we are on. Let's leave it at that. You're always asking for a fair and unbiased debate on CZ28.com so let's have one.

This is the first time I've seen the GTR 7:38 Ring video. So bias aside can you honestly tell me that Nissan started the timer and stopped the timer at the same spot on the track?

NOTE: This has nothing to do with the Z06/ZR1, stopped or running starts or the claimed GTR 7:29 lap. Which I would really like to see. IF they ran the car from the same point and still got a 7:29 then Super Kudos to Nissan they deserve it and I'll

 

All I know is, when I used to play Gran Turismo 2, 3 and 4 , the first lap was always quite a bit slower then all the others because of the speed you have when you cross the line. Depending on the track and how much speed you could rack up as you passed the start line the difference could be between 5-15 seconds better then a standing start driving the rest of the lap the same.

 

Maybe I'm mistaken but I was under the impression that the C5 (or maybe it was the C6) Z06 did hold the production car lap record for at least a short time. In any event...

No and I doubt that anyone can say except for the person who actually did it....I'm also not sure why it matters???

I may be wrong but I believe to hold a record at the ring there are stipulations that have to be followed and I'm fairly sure that the group trying to establish such a record don't get to decide where to start or stop the clock or to actually be the one doing the stopping and starting.

If that isn't the case they any record at the ring by any vehicle would be pretty meaningless.

 

Although it's been a while.

I will say that speaking about any car's absolute performance, which I haven't driven, would require a bit of hypothetical judgement on my part to formulate an opinion.

 

You are worng on this. There are no rules to follow when the track is rented. Also a Nissan engineer stated that they have over 5,000 miles on the ring witht the GTR. Forget the name but if you want i will post his name. GM rented it from 7am to 8am and they did with a standing start on runcraps. They ran a full lap then a cooldown then pitted. Tehn went to the line and ran a full lap, cool down lap and pitted. They got 4 full runs in this time. You can go ask Jan, Larry Webster, Csaba, heinricy and others and they will tell you the same thing.

The video clearly, clearly show the shorter track of the GTR. The problem i have is that this was not an apples to apples comparison and Nissan knows this. They even knew how GM did the testing for the Z06 on the ring. I think it was Webster who wrote about this. Because they, Nissan contacted both C&D and either M&T or R&T to inquire about the procedure. They arte promoting this time when they are well aware that the testing procedures between the two cars were different.

The Cobalt video clearly show Gm standard is not a flying start. And nobody wants to comment that Sport Auto tested both cars and the Z06 was faster with their drivers but yet somehow on the ring it was so much quicker??

Obviously you are very happy that Nissan, the compnay you work for and love has posted a not so conclusive better time. I mean lesshp/tq and around 700 pounds heavier and still faster???????

Here is an Idea, why can't Bob Lutz run a commercial featuring himself. He could say, I hear all this talk about how the GTR is so much better than the Z06. What we are going to do is buy a GTR when they are available and dyno and weigh it to make sure it meets factory specs. Then we will do the same thing to a Z06 so we are comparing apples to apples.

Then we will hire a Nissan professional racer and get a GM professional racer. We will then go to the ring and VIDEO the runs ans see who comes out on top. And both car's will run the same TYPE of TIRE. Then we will rerun this as a commercial to see what car is really faster!

I mean this would not only show that GM does indeed have "*****" ( i for one think that the wife is carrying them in her purse when it comes to GM) but this would open up a new can of worms: What the MANUFACTUER STATES about their car had damn welll better be accurate or face the consequences!

 

I drove them, Z06's around Spring Mountain but waht does that have to do with anything? The video clearly shows the flying atart and shorter track. You don't have to be a race car driver to see this.

 

You're not sure why it matters? I certainly hope you're not meaning why it matters to have a start/finish line or even having the same start and ending point to complete a lap. That's the basis to measure anything.

So if Nissan is going to show the GTR video starting at 00:00:00 and end at 7:38:54 but then have some video evidence than seems to show them not actually completing the lap I can't see how that wouldn't matter.


Up until yesterday I though this too. But seeing this video and then the GM video of the Cobalt SS and rumors that the Z06 was timed from a standing start and others have used a stopwatch to time the GTR V Spec. It's become very clear that the Ring isn't like Road America, Watkins Glen or Laguna Seca and there seems to be some very arbitrary ways to measure a lap there. And certainly GM and Nissan seem to be doing it differently. So I'm also starting to question all the records there.

I suppose nothing short of having both cars there running at the same time maybe spaced out several minutes to prevent them actually interfering with the others lap times. But two cars off the factory floor with the same type of start and the same start/finish line.

 

Yeah, dont worry about completing the whole lap. Just stop the clock whenever you want.

That 7:38 lap is suspect, so why would I believe the 7:29 to not also be suspect?

And I havent seen anything very official surrounding that ring record. All I see is the Nissan guy telling everybody that they did it.

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/10/c...-spec-amused/3

As reported earlier this week, spies caught the GT-R V-Spec lapping the Nordschleife, and with stopwatches at the ready, they were able to time Godzilla's lightweight (by an estimated 330 pounds), more powerful (70 hp or so) sibling at an unbelievable 7:25 per lap.

With a stopwatch. Please stop quoting these times as fact.