I'd go further and say that Pontiacs were purchased mostly by rental fleets.

It's been years since Pontiac built "Excitement." At the end, Pontiac pretty much only served to dilute Chevy's ability to compete by diverting GM's resources away from product refinement and toward providing Pontiac with slightly different Chevys to sell. That trend was even evident with the 4th gen, where GM spent money to build several variations of Firebird, leaving Camaro with no visible variations except for the powertrain, all the while selling fewer units than Camaro. It was a waste of development dollars, and both F Bodies suffered for it.

Out of Pontiac's current portfolio, the car I'd miss most is the G8. In fact, it's the only car I'd miss, though the Solstice probably also has a decent following as well.

 

Chevrolet already has the Corvette and Camaro. In the end Pontiac had what, G8?

I'm sorry, but is this a serious question?

 

Aside from the G8 Chevy has/had more performance than Pontiac.

• Turbo SS (LNF) Cobalt and HHR are gone, but I'm sure we will get Delta II cars with the next gen LNF. Cruze & "Orlando"
• Next Commodore comes in for MY2012, make that a Chevy.
• And of course Chevy has Camaro and Corvette.

I think the performance Truck/SUV days are over. The general consensus seems to be that the return of a good economy will bring back $4+ gas, that coupled with GM needing to spend more more wisely means slim chance for a performance truck. We need to get the Z28, Turbo Delta IIs, and CTS coupe to market first.

 

It has been quoted once, but I will do it again for good measure. Pontiac hasn't screamed performance to me for my whole life (I am 29). The honest facts are, there is nothing I can think of performance-wise that was made lately that I couldn't get from another GM division besides GTO and G8. However, other divisions had their performance halo cars, so it isn't like Pontiac stood out as a beacon of performance. i.e. At this moment, when I think GM performance, it isn't Pontiac that I say carrying the load. G8 GXP is awesome, however I don't see it trumping Corvette & Camaro or the V cars in the minds of the general performance buying public.

 

I am 29 as well and feel the same way. Pontiac's performance has been all talk in my lifetime. It had A performance model with the firebird. That is gone. It had a GTO. That is gone. It has a Solstice and G8, for 2009.

Chevy for 2009 had more performance models than Pontiac. The torch has already been passed. Chevy is losing some of those models, but gaining a Camaro. Hopefully it will get a Cruze SS as well.

 

Until I read your post, I was going to say Chevrolet already has a stronger performance image than Pontiac. But your list brings up some good points.

With Pontiac gone, Chevrolet NEEDS the G6 coupe (the only coupe based on Espilon) and it's retractable roof as well as it's convertable. It NEEDS the G8. With both Solstice and Sky going away, a single model sold under Chevrolet would likely equal the volume both sold combined, though it perhaps isn't "needed as much as the other 2.

I still feel that Chevrolet's performance image is stronger than Pontiac's. Chevrolet has the Corvette. 3 levels of them. Chevrolet has the Cobalt SS. The Trailblazer SS was a Chevrolet-only ride. Chevrolet had the only 2 door W-car for nearly a decade, in the end adding a V8. The Silverado SS was no Ford Lightning or Dodge SRT Ram, but it wasn't sold through any other GM division. Even if GM was keeping Pontiac, all the performance attention would still be in Chevrolet showrooms because of the Camaro.


So, while Chevrolet has room for 2 (and perhaps 3) unique cars that were offered by Pontiac, the lack of those vehicles doesn't preclude Chevrolet from having a stronger performance image than Pontiac.

Sure, the Grand Prix GTP then the GXP were the most higly capable W-cars GM made, and the GTO and G8 were traditional performance cars and highly capable. But Chevrolet has clearly had more performance out there on the streets.

The days where Pontiac had "Secret Society", "Wink-Wink" performance powerplants are long gone.

In the early 70s, they put out racing grade 455s disguised as smog choked V8s (complete with engine spec stickers on the engine so that do-it-yourselfers could tweak it for competition). In the 80s Pontiac snuck out 4 cylinder Fiero H.O.s that had lackluster horsepower, but had racing grade blocks, heads, & pistons and was fully ready for a strapped on supercharger or turbo (racers took that very engine to over 400+ horsepower!). Even base Trans Ams from the 70s came with shaker hood scoops that needed barely more than a small handsaw (or good steak knife) and 5 minutes to make them completely functional and a short twist on the distributor to maximise performance. The Fiero itself was quietly designed to accept a Chevrolet V8 engine, of all things!

When you compare that to Pontiac of the last 20 years, and look at Chevrolet, I'd have to hand it to Chevy.

 

I've got a cousin who had a '78 white/red T/A when I was 16 or 17 & she let me drive it around the block once. Man I was in 7th heaven! But to the point about Chevy, they've got the hardware, but their styling leaves me cold. When Pontiac's gone G.M. won't have anything that'll look good to me anymore. Sorry, that's just the way I feel.

 

I won't ague the performance side of things - as others have said, Chevy has it covered. Personally, I always considered myself BowTie faithful, until a decade ago when I got my first Pontiac - since then the styling and interior treatments of Chevys, to me, just haven't been as attractive as Pontiacs. As much as I disliked my 03 GA GT interior, it turned me off far, far less than the comparable Malibu or Impala at the time, for example. My current GP, as much as some don't care for the styling in/out, is still much more engaging and sporty looking than say an Impala or LaCrosse/Allure.

If Chevy can inject some of that design flair into their cars (newer products are much better) with less blandness going forward then I have no problem with Pontiac fading away, outside of the G8 being prematurely discontinued - but that can be fixed.

 

So what does Pontiac have (or had) in the last few years that you've been impressed enough with to buy new from a dealer?

I am not calling you out directly, I just see a lot of I am done with GM comments because they aren't going forward with Pontiac. I see lots of people on this board that aren't buying new GMs and complain about how they'd never buy a GM. If they aren't a customer and they aren't going to be a customer no matter what GM does, why should GM try figuring out a way to market to them?

This is along the same lines as the people on this board complaining up and down about the new Camaro not being all they had hoped for, when they know damn well they can't afford one new. There is nothing GM could do short of dropping the price $20,000 to get them in the market. Again, why should GM care to cater to them when it won't equal a sale.

 

I suspect this was largely due to GM's brand management gurus. They couldn't make Chevy too "stylish" or it would step on Pontiac's toes. If they made it too classy it would infringe on Saturn/Buick.

Without being "boxed in" by a number of auxiliary brands, Chevy will have the ability to be more stylish and upscale. And I think you already see that with the latest generation of products - Malibu, Equinox, Camaro, etc.

 

That's exactly the way I see it too. With no Pontiac or Saturn to trip over, Chevy has increased potential.

 

NO

In order to do it, Chevrolet would have to have performance vehicles coming out (which it doesn't) They would also have to have an entirely new angle on marketing those vehicles (Good luck with that, given GM's marketing history) and it would have to have interesting and sexy designs on deck. (Have you seen the future design direction for Chevrolet? It's nice, but certainly not sexy.)

BEAR IN MIND: The question was, can Chevrolet assimilate Pontiac's sporty image? So, before anyone wise-cracks about the "current Pontiacs", I'm NOT talking about that. I'm talking about TRULY making up LOST ground.

Chevy could do it, if they developed the right line of SS cars. But I doubt it'll happen. The buyers are likely lost already.

At this point, If Buick truly becomes Opelized, with the turbos and ALL (which I also doubt) I think BUICK has a better chance of acquiring Pontiac buyers than Daewoo (err, I mean, Chevrolet)

 

Yeeeeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and ---- disagree with you there.

 

I have to take issue with that.

If I were in the market for a new GM (besides Camaro) I'd be hard pressed NOT to buy a Pontiac of Saturn. They were the best divisions (especially Saturns bread and butter stuff) at the corporation IMO.

Chevrolet has a cheaper image and has about 1/5th of the style. Why would I simply walk from a Pontiac or Saturn showroom into a Chevrolet showroom?

What traditional auto enthusiasts always seem to forget about is the power of marketing and 'emotion'. Sure, Chevrolet might have offered MORE performance vehicles than Pontiac. However, in the eyes of the general public, 70 years of marketing has positioned Pontiac ABOVE Chevrolet... 20 years of marketing has positioned Saturn ABOVE Chevrolet... 45 years of marketing has positioned Pontiac as a more performance oriented brand than Chevrolet and 5 years of marketing has positioned Saturn as a more stylish, higher quality brand than Chevrolet.

How will GM overcome those perceptions immediately to position Chevrolet as a more premium brand and Buick as a more youthful brand to compensate for the loss of Pontiac and Saturn?!?!

This is the question GM should be asking itself (If it's smart) And the answer is; with A LOT of strong product and GREAT marketing.

GM's marketing has sucked for almost 20 years now. And GM CERTAINLY does not have the product in the pipeline to try and narrow the gaps for the divisions. For example; the new Regal, a pivotal car for Buicks quest to be cool, won't even be here until 2012 or 2013. NOT GOOD.....

So, my answer remains, NO.

 

I don't really see what Harvey Birdman has to do with any of this...