Let's hear it.

 

I would say yes, if they get the right product. With a few exceptions, Chevy equaled Pontiac in performance image until the GTO and G8 models. In 1970, the Chevelle SS was the equal of the GTO, and the LS6 was quicker than anything from Pontiac. The Camaro was the equal of the Firebird throughout the 3rd and 4th gen models, except for possibly the turbo Trans Am of 1989 (not the 301 turbo from 10 years earlier).

Today, if you want a performance sedan, Chevrolet has nothing to compete against a G8. That's simple to rectify if GM decides to

 

I'd say one of two things has already happened:

1) It already has... Chevy has more sport-oriented models as it stands, and Pontiac had several models that weren't sport related at all.

2) Chevy's performance image stands on it's own, and frankly, stands above Pontiacs.


I love Pontiac... a lot, and I don't want it to go.... but in today's world, I find myself having to admit that there wasn't much room for Pontiac to fit in GM's portfolia, when Chevy can do the Chevy thing and the Pontiac thing all by itself.


When GM had a 50%+ market share? Sure. With an roughly 20% and probably shrinking market share? Not so much.


Further reducing Pontiac's reason for beign happened a long time ago when Pontiac (and others divisions) quit having their own powertrains... nothing unique to the vehicles besides the styling.

Grand Prix GXP represented the 'ultimate' in uniqueness between division rivals... the GXP was differentiaed by having a different suspension. That's what it basically boiled down to, and really.... even that was rare.

 

Pontiac's "performance" image has been questionable at best over the last few years. They tried with GTO, but it was offset by things like G6s with big wings and nasty body kits.

I don't think Chevy has a big target to shoot for in that regard, the question is whether they can convince die-hard Pontiac guys to buy into Chevrolet. Other than that I don't see why, with their own performance history to build upon, they can't carry that torch at GM.

 

Charlie, I've thought a lot about this lately...I simply don't know. I WANT them to, but will they???

1) No Malibu-type coupe to replace the ugly G6 coupe, or compete against the Altima and Accord coupes...
2) Impala is laughable against G8.
3) Will we get a performance version of the Cruze?
4) TB SS is long gone.
5) There is no performance truck.

So, other than Corvette and Camaro, uhm.................uh....................













Uh..................................guess you know my answer, at the moment

 

You have some good points, I would counter each point with:


1) With Camaro, you shouldn't need a Malibu coupe in the lineup. Don't canabailze sales within your own showroom.

2) Hard to argue that at this point... hopefully they will give more thought to moving G8 to Chevy as a new model... the big issue being can G8 supply the volume that Impala does (but sales-wise AND facorty capacity-wise), and does it need to do that to have a place in the lineup at Chevy?

3) I think so... I think they have to really... that would be a big hole to leave in your lineup, even in today's world.

4) But TB itself was long in tooth... besides TBSS, the only other real performance item in it's class would be the Grand Cherokee SRT8... I would guess this will not be replaced, as I can't see a Traverse SS really being viable.

5) True, but Pontiac didn't have a performance truck either (or a performance SUV in reference to the TBSS in point #4)... and neither does anyone else right now, right? Ram SRT-10 is gone, and so is Lightning right? Although, I think a Silverado SS could be a good addition if done right.

 

I don't know why so many people around here think Pontiac's image tanked when it lost its own powertrains. I think Pontiac's image through the '80s, and into the '90s, seemed to be just fine. Yes, they used the same engines as Chevys, but it sure didn't seem to hurt sales. Plus, when you parked, say, a '94 GTP next to a '94 Lumina Z34, I think it was easy to see why people loved the GTP back then

In my mind, Pontiac's image didn't truly tank until the '04+ GP went over like a fart in church with all but the most faithful (of which, admittedly, I am one...), the Grand Am stuck around too long and was replaced by the ever-bland G6, and the GTO failed to catch on.

3 strikes...it was out Pontiac as a niche brand never would've worked, anyway. Pontiac was like Mazda or Nissan...mainstream, exciting performance-minded vehicles. That meant a strong G6 and G8. The G8 would've worked out...its too bad...

 

And I shall counter (as the piles of unsigned car deals on my desk grows and grows this morning )....

1) Darth, buddy...that's like saying a Grand Am coupe stole sales from the Firebird back in the day Trust me...it didn't!! Do you think people will cross-shop an Altima coupe with a Camaro? Hell no! A FWD, sporty coupe would be great! Did a Beretta ever compete with a 3rd or 4th gen? Didn't think so...

2) I know Pontiac had no performance trucks...but seeing as how Chevy DOES sell trucks, and HAS had performance trucks, it would help the performance image to have them again, when things improve. This new F150 Raptor sounds pretty sweet, and Dodge does have a Ram R/T that does 0-60 on the heels of an LT1 Not an SRT-10, but damn impressive nonetheless...

 

Chevy also has a pretty impressive Cobalt SS. The Pontiac G5....not so much. Then you stuck Pontiac with a G3 (Aveo) - WHY? - and a Toyota Vibe.

Pontiac toward the end seemed to completely lose focus - sure, they offered a coupe version of their best seller and GTO, then G8 - but what was up with these other cars that dealers demanded just to be seen as a "full line" division?

 

Did the 94-era Grand Prix out sell the Lumina? I honestly don't know the answer, but I would guess not.

In the end, they were the same car with with different styling and probably the Pontiac was slighty tighter in the suspension back then... an issue back then that is almost a non issue now, as we dont have too many, if any 'waterbeds on wheels' anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I love Pontiac... and I am all for more choices by my favorite manufacturer and brands from a consumer standpoint... but I can , unfortunately see, why the need for a not-so-performance-oriented performance division is hard to justify in today's crowded marketplace.

 

(get to work! )


I think this is a totally appropriate comment for the 80's and 90's, but not so much today.... As I mentioned in another thread...Sedans have no stigma anymore. And that was a main reason to buy a Beretta over a Corsica back in the day. I will say this... assuming there will not be a 2-door version of the Cruze, I would give more reason to the existance of a Malibu coupe in the showroom since the Cobalt coupe would not be replaced by anything.... still, the pricepoint probably would be considerably higher, and that would have to be considered that it would still butt heads with Camaro V6 customers..... as for the FWD vs AWD aspect, I do agree there, and this is one reason why I pushed, back in the day, for AWD to be considered as being an optiono on the RWD Camaro... especially on the base model.

 

This...

 

Quoted for truth. Not only does Chevrolet have a performance image over Pontiac now, it does over the way back era too. Go to a car show and you might see a few Trans Ams or GTOs, sometimes even Chevy powered. But the Chevys? Camaros, Corvettes, Chevelles, Novas, Malibus, Impala SS's, on and on, modded 55-57 Chevys, etc. Chevy has a huge performance following that not even F*rd or Dodge can match, let alone Pontiac. The SBC and BBC are also by far the most popular V8 engines ever produced in the US and the most used for racing and such.

 

Pontiac has not had a performance images since well.. probably since i was born.... girls buy pontiacs (mostly)

Pontiac and performance does no go hand in hand (in the general public view) Pontiac won't be missed by anyone else but us...

 

Pontiac's genius in the 60's and early 70's was making the best with what they were given. They used off the shelf parts to make their cars special, ie a Tempest became a GTO, a Firebird's got 400ci V8s, wide track styling was used across the board. The guys that managed Pontiac made it a point to differentiate their cars from the other divisions. I think the GP GXP was a good example of the spirit of what Pontiac was all about. Instead of just throwing a V8 in a W body and calling it a day, they made the best handling and most intriguing W body ever (not really saying much there). Pontiac's attention to details was what endeared it to its fans.