GM top Exec. don't want to give up anything?
11-19-2008, 11:29 PM
#92
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,943
It's like showing up at a food kitchen in a Limo and asking for a free meal.
It was an incredibly stupid thing to do while begging for money from the government.
11-19-2008, 11:52 PM
#93
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Korea
Posts: 164
These car execs should be treated like football coaches then. Fail to perform, and you're OUT. A struggling coach at a historically winning program doesn't stay long if he can't right the ship. By that way of thinking, Wagoner wouldn't have made it to the year 2000, much less 2008. You think Charlie Weis or Rich Rodriguez will be around much longer if they don't start winning?
Sorry for the sports analogy---but if GM were a team most of us would have bailed on them by now. Heck, the stadium would have closed and they would've moved to another city.
I know, I know--apples to oranges. But Ghosn did it at Nissan and Mulally looks to be doing it at Ford (if a GM failure doesn't bring the blue oval down as well).
Sorry for the sports analogy---but if GM were a team most of us would have bailed on them by now. Heck, the stadium would have closed and they would've moved to another city.
I know, I know--apples to oranges. But Ghosn did it at Nissan and Mulally looks to be doing it at Ford (if a GM failure doesn't bring the blue oval down as well).
11-20-2008, 12:11 AM
#94
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 511
I saw a congressman grill them about them riding in corporate jets while begging for handouts. The camera swung around to see their reaction...their facial expressions were priceless! They had no answer.
..another congressman asked about manufacturing in Mexico, China and Canada and why should Americans bail those countries out. GM is working to build cars in China and import them back into the US.
...meanwhile, the billionaires are doing all they can do bankrupt the automakers so that the will jettison the pensions (dump them on you and me via pension guarnanty corporation) and other healthcare support. The unions have given up everything and have zero clout anymore.
Goodbye medical care. Goodbye pensions. Work until they don't need you, and then hurry up and die.
..another congressman asked about manufacturing in Mexico, China and Canada and why should Americans bail those countries out. GM is working to build cars in China and import them back into the US.
...meanwhile, the billionaires are doing all they can do bankrupt the automakers so that the will jettison the pensions (dump them on you and me via pension guarnanty corporation) and other healthcare support. The unions have given up everything and have zero clout anymore.
Goodbye medical care. Goodbye pensions. Work until they don't need you, and then hurry up and die.
11-20-2008, 12:18 AM
#95
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Arlington, Texas
Posts: 2,576
The plane and pilot are already paid for. You're probably looking at a burn of about 1000pph for the plane, for a 400 mile trip. Just for giggles, call it 4000 lbs round trip. at $4/gal for Jet A, you're talking about $2400 total for the round trip for the whole GM contingent. Figure half a dozen suits total=$400 per person, round trip. That's nothing. You'd be lucky to get a walkup fare on Southwest for that. If they had flown commercial, they would get skewered for pandering to DC while their paid for corporate jet sits unused at DTW.
The politicians were showboating and making a scene so they can get on the news and appear to be standing up against corporate greed to their constituants. It was the same thing when they put them all on the spot about their willingness to work for a dollar. I'd like to put the question to every member of congress as well.
The politicians were showboating and making a scene so they can get on the news and appear to be standing up against corporate greed to their constituants. It was the same thing when they put them all on the spot about their willingness to work for a dollar. I'd like to put the question to every member of congress as well.
11-20-2008, 12:21 AM
#96
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Detroit, MI USA
Posts: 2,301
the plane and pilot are already paid for. You're probably looking at a burn of about 1000pph for the plane, for a 400 mile trip. Just for giggles, call it 4000 lbs round trip. At $4/gal for jet a, you're talking about $2400 total for the round trip for the whole gm contingent. Figure half a dozen suits total=$400 per person, round trip. That's nothing. You'd be lucky to get a walkup fare on southwest for that. If they had flown commercial, they would get skewered for pandering to dc while their paid for corporate jet sits unused at dtw.
The politicians were showboating and making a scene so they can get on the news and appear to be standing up against corporate greed to their constituants. It was the same thing when they put them all on the spot about their willingness to work for a dollar. I'd like to put the question to every member of congress as well.
The politicians were showboating and making a scene so they can get on the news and appear to be standing up against corporate greed to their constituants. It was the same thing when they put them all on the spot about their willingness to work for a dollar. I'd like to put the question to every member of congress as well.
hey!!!! Stop confusing us with facts!!!!!!
11-20-2008, 12:31 AM
#97
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Detroit, MI USA
Posts: 2,301
Wow. Just - wow. The rest of the folks look to be from dying or dead giants of the past - a bunch of thumbsuckers that continue to support the employment of paste-eaters. I'd like to see each Board member hauled in front of Congress to explain what they've done in an attempt to help GM's transition into a sustainable 21st-century transportation company.
(.....but I WILL make sure you're on the next ballot.......'kay?......)
11-20-2008, 12:33 AM
#98
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Detroit, MI USA
Posts: 2,301
Have any of you flown out from Detroit Metro on a private jet vs. a commercial airliner?
A private flight you just walk onto, then take off, it takes about 1 hour to washington
A commercial flight takes about 5 hours when you factor in driving to the airport, check-in, boarding, flight instructions from attendants, the flight, landing, getting luggage, etc.
A private flight out of willow run takes you about 30 seconds to walk out from your car onto the plane and another 3 minutes to taxi and take off.
Mullaly makes 28 Million a year, or 6400/hr if he worked 12 hours a day/ 365 a year. by saving him 4 hours for meetings, he negated the cost of 8 hours of downtime sitting on a plane not trying to solve the crisis...8*6400 is 51,200, alot more than a 10k flight on a jet they already have paid off.
A private flight you just walk onto, then take off, it takes about 1 hour to washington
A commercial flight takes about 5 hours when you factor in driving to the airport, check-in, boarding, flight instructions from attendants, the flight, landing, getting luggage, etc.
A private flight out of willow run takes you about 30 seconds to walk out from your car onto the plane and another 3 minutes to taxi and take off.
Mullaly makes 28 Million a year, or 6400/hr if he worked 12 hours a day/ 365 a year. by saving him 4 hours for meetings, he negated the cost of 8 hours of downtime sitting on a plane not trying to solve the crisis...8*6400 is 51,200, alot more than a 10k flight on a jet they already have paid off.
There you go-- confusing us with facts......................
11-20-2008, 12:41 AM
#99
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,132
The plane and pilot are already paid for. You're probably looking at a burn of about 1000pph for the plane, for a 400 mile trip. Just for giggles, call it 4000 lbs round trip. at $4/gal for Jet A, you're talking about $2400 total for the round trip for the whole GM contingent. Figure half a dozen suits total=$400 per person, round trip. That's nothing. You'd be lucky to get a walkup fare on Southwest for that. If they had flown commercial, they would get skewered for pandering to DC while their paid for corporate jet sits unused at DTW.
The politicians were showboating and making a scene so they can get on the news and appear to be standing up against corporate greed to their constituants. It was the same thing when they put them all on the spot about their willingness to work for a dollar. I'd like to put the question to every member of congress as well.
The politicians were showboating and making a scene so they can get on the news and appear to be standing up against corporate greed to their constituants. It was the same thing when they put them all on the spot about their willingness to work for a dollar. I'd like to put the question to every member of congress as well.
Okay, what the senator really wanted was to make them squirm, 'cause it plays so well to the home audience.
I think we all knew this wasn't going to be pretty....
Like I said before, Wall Street is hard for people to wrap their brains around, but everyone has an opinion on the auto industry, and most of those think they can run it better than the folks who are there. Just look at the postings on this mostly-friendly website.
11-20-2008, 12:53 AM
#100
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Location: valley of hell
Posts: 131
[Goodbye medical care. Goodbye pensions. Work until they don't need you, and then hurry up and die.[/QUOTE]
And there it is, the corporate view of the workforce
And don't bitch or we'll move all manuf to some 3rd world sh#t hole even faster than we are.
And there it is, the corporate view of the workforce
And don't bitch or we'll move all manuf to some 3rd world sh#t hole even faster than we are.
11-20-2008, 05:04 AM
#102
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,123
If you look at the board of the country's media owners, you would notice a similar spread of influential people from major public companies.
Last edited by SSbaby; 11-20-2008 at 05:51 AM.
11-20-2008, 05:51 AM
#103
Lounge Moderator
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Mi Scusi!
Posts: 360
I agree wholeheartedly with Centric. I'm surprised that so many of you see this as "no big deal."
You're leaving a crucial element out of your hypothetical situation in order for it to work in your favor.
My transportation is not paid for by my job. The comparison of taking the bus to work for the hell of it is not valid at all. A better illustration would be,"If your company was going bankrupt, would you get off your *** and drive to work instead of taking the corporate limo every day?"
My contention is that anyone who is remotely connected with the real world and has a true interest in saving their organization will say,"yes" in a heartbeat. CEOS dropping in from private jets to ask for my money don't strike me as people willing to put in the hard work and the sacrifices to return to profitability.
They strike me as someone wanting an easy hand-out while they maintain their lavish lifestyles.
My transportation is not paid for by my job. The comparison of taking the bus to work for the hell of it is not valid at all. A better illustration would be,"If your company was going bankrupt, would you get off your *** and drive to work instead of taking the corporate limo every day?"
My contention is that anyone who is remotely connected with the real world and has a true interest in saving their organization will say,"yes" in a heartbeat. CEOS dropping in from private jets to ask for my money don't strike me as people willing to put in the hard work and the sacrifices to return to profitability.
They strike me as someone wanting an easy hand-out while they maintain their lavish lifestyles.
11-20-2008, 05:58 AM
#104
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Marlton NJ
Posts: 2,414
I agree wholeheartedly with Centric. I'm surprised that so many of you see this as "no big deal."
You're leaving a crucial element out of your hypothetical situation in order for it to work in your favor.
My transportation is not paid for by my job. The comparison of taking the bus to work for the hell of it is not valid at all. A better illustration would be,"If your company was going bankrupt, would you get off your *** and drive to work instead of taking the corporate limo every day?"
My contention is that anyone who is remotely connected with the real world and has a true interest in saving their organization will say,"yes" in a heartbeat. CEOS dropping in from private jets to ask for my money don't strike me as people willing to put in the hard work and the sacrifices to return to profitability.
They strike me as someone wanting an easy hand-out while they maintain their lavish lifestyles.
You're leaving a crucial element out of your hypothetical situation in order for it to work in your favor.
My transportation is not paid for by my job. The comparison of taking the bus to work for the hell of it is not valid at all. A better illustration would be,"If your company was going bankrupt, would you get off your *** and drive to work instead of taking the corporate limo every day?"
My contention is that anyone who is remotely connected with the real world and has a true interest in saving their organization will say,"yes" in a heartbeat. CEOS dropping in from private jets to ask for my money don't strike me as people willing to put in the hard work and the sacrifices to return to profitability.
They strike me as someone wanting an easy hand-out while they maintain their lavish lifestyles.
11-20-2008, 06:07 AM
#105
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Bayamon, PR
Posts: 197
Unbelievable. People actually defend these jerkoffs. American CEO's are overpaid and their remunerations have nothing to do with performance. The Economist published an article on this last year I think, the difference in actual work performed and salary between European and American CEO's is huge, and yet American CEO's get ridiculous amounts of money to be a figurehead.
Someone mentioned their job, yes they may have some pressure, but their main job is to provide vision, direction, and promote company culture. It's obvious to the lawmakers at this point that these idiots really don't get it.
Someone mentioned their job, yes they may have some pressure, but their main job is to provide vision, direction, and promote company culture. It's obvious to the lawmakers at this point that these idiots really don't get it.