GM top Exec. don't want to give up anything?
11-20-2008, 09:50 AM
#136
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11-20-2008, 09:50 AM
#137
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Your analogy is off. It would more closely resemble going to a food kitchen in a limo and asking for 2 Billion free meals to save hundreds of thousands who depend on you, when the limo was already paid for and the driver was going to get paid whether you used his service or not.
11-20-2008, 10:12 AM
#138
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Facts are rarely the issue when it comes to politics…surely everyone (even Fbodfather) knows that.
This is not an issue of what might have made sense economically (plane already paid for) what made sense rationally (avoiding typical airline issues)…it’s a matter of perception - anybody who doesn’t see that is either to caught up in their passion for Detroit or is to stubborn to acknowledge it.
I wouldn’t care if Wagoner owned his own private jet and paid for the entire trip out of his own pocket – showing up in a private jet to go to Congress and beg for taxpayer money was a truly idiotic thing to do.
If Detroit doesn’t get their bailout it will likely be due to moves like using private jets and the attitudes displayed at the hearing Tuesday and Wednesday than due to any facts about the issue.
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Just another thought…
Why the hell in this day and age when we are all so “green” conscious and Detroit bleeding red ink…whey do they have to “fly” anywhere…whey do they have corporate jets at all?
Have people not heard of videoconferencing?
This is not an issue of what might have made sense economically (plane already paid for) what made sense rationally (avoiding typical airline issues)…it’s a matter of perception - anybody who doesn’t see that is either to caught up in their passion for Detroit or is to stubborn to acknowledge it.
I wouldn’t care if Wagoner owned his own private jet and paid for the entire trip out of his own pocket – showing up in a private jet to go to Congress and beg for taxpayer money was a truly idiotic thing to do.
If Detroit doesn’t get their bailout it will likely be due to moves like using private jets and the attitudes displayed at the hearing Tuesday and Wednesday than due to any facts about the issue.
--------------------
Just another thought…
Why the hell in this day and age when we are all so “green” conscious and Detroit bleeding red ink…whey do they have to “fly” anywhere…whey do they have corporate jets at all?
Have people not heard of videoconferencing?
Last edited by Robert_Nashville; 11-20-2008 at 10:20 AM. Reason: Just another thought...
11-20-2008, 10:23 AM
#139
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This is not an issue of what might have made sense economically (plane already paid for) what made sense rationally (avoiding typical airline issues)…it’s a matter of perception - anybody who doesn’t see that is either to caught up in their passion for Detroit or is to stubborn to acknowledge it.
I wouldn’t care if Wagoner owned his own private jet and paid for the entire trip out of his own pocket – showing up in a private jet to go to Congress and beg for taxpayer money was a truly idiotic thing to do.
If Detroit doesn’t get their bailout it will likely be due to moves like using private jets and the attitudes displayed at the hearing Tuesday and Wednesday than due to any facts about the issue.
I wouldn’t care if Wagoner owned his own private jet and paid for the entire trip out of his own pocket – showing up in a private jet to go to Congress and beg for taxpayer money was a truly idiotic thing to do.
If Detroit doesn’t get their bailout it will likely be due to moves like using private jets and the attitudes displayed at the hearing Tuesday and Wednesday than due to any facts about the issue.
Also, they didn't go to beg for tax payer money. They went to request loans or loan backing to save their corporations which employ hundreds of thousand directly and millions indirectly.
Although this may be a topic for a different thread, how many key Nissan, Honda, and Toyota suppliers do you think the big three could take with them? Is it really worth all that just because some feel Mr. Wagnor needs to be tought a tough lesson?
11-20-2008, 10:34 AM
#140
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As I've already discussed with the mods; this IS an issue of politics and there is no way to avoid that truth.
You are free to disagree all you wish; I think, however, that the Congress and the public are not going to be on your side on this.
It is a topic for another thread (and it's already been mentioned many times).
I disaree with that view point. They mearly used the mode of transportation that made the most sense. Makeing a big news story out of it because you can easily spin it in your view points favor, is worse than idiotic its is irresponsible sensationalism.
Also, they didn't go to beg for tax payer money. They went to request loans or loan backing to save their corporations which employ hundreds of thousand directly and millions indirectly.
Also, they didn't go to beg for tax payer money. They went to request loans or loan backing to save their corporations which employ hundreds of thousand directly and millions indirectly.
Although this may be a topic for a different thread, how many key Nissan, Honda, and Toyota suppliers do you think the big three could take with them? Is it really worth all that just because some feel Mr. Wagnor needs to be tought a tough lesson?
11-20-2008, 11:01 AM
#141
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It's all about destroying the UAW
Auto industry CEOs appeared on Capitol Hill ysterday to ask for a $25 billion bailout. Rep. Brad Sherman (D-CA) asked the top execs if they would be willing sell their corporate jets and travel home on commercial flights.
Sherman asked the CEOs, "I'm going to ask you to raise your hand if you are planning to sell your jet in place now and fly back commercial." "Let the record show, no hands went up," noted Sherman
MSNBC's Contessa Brewer and Mike Viqueira discussed the CEOs' lack of response. "I have to tell you, just listening to that is awkward," said Brewer.
These idiot CEO's are not helping themselves and they need to change their King Maker mentality very fast or they will go down in flames. Asking for a rescue package while flying in on private jets is freaking ludicrous.
No matter how we slice it, the Auto Industry is in big trouble and needs some help. We can't allow it to fold because of the ramifications that will be felt throughout the country and the good people who will lose their jobs. Millions of them actually. What most people don't realize is that the auto industry dying will hurt every single community in America through the dealer network.
Sen. Richard Shelby (R) and his pals are hellbent to break the UAW and as many unions as they can get their hands on and that's what is really going on here, but the media will never say that. Shelby has deep ties into the auto industry that wants unions busted.
What Shelby doesn't mention, of course, is that Alabama is a right to work state. Shelby also doesn't mention that Alabama is home to Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, and Mercedes plants.
Shelby also doesn't reveal that many of the cars those manufacturers make in Alabama, without unions, are precisely the kind of behemoths critics attack Detroit for making--only these have foreign nameplates: M-Class SUV, GL-Class SUV (a new model), Pilot SUV, Santa Fe SUV, plus engines for Tacoma and Tundra pick-ups and Sequoia SUVs.
In other words, Shelby isn't opposed to car companies that are stupidly committing and recommitting to SUVs. Rather, he's just opposed to car companies that make SUVs with union labor.
Sherman asked the CEOs, "I'm going to ask you to raise your hand if you are planning to sell your jet in place now and fly back commercial." "Let the record show, no hands went up," noted Sherman
MSNBC's Contessa Brewer and Mike Viqueira discussed the CEOs' lack of response. "I have to tell you, just listening to that is awkward," said Brewer.
These idiot CEO's are not helping themselves and they need to change their King Maker mentality very fast or they will go down in flames. Asking for a rescue package while flying in on private jets is freaking ludicrous.
No matter how we slice it, the Auto Industry is in big trouble and needs some help. We can't allow it to fold because of the ramifications that will be felt throughout the country and the good people who will lose their jobs. Millions of them actually. What most people don't realize is that the auto industry dying will hurt every single community in America through the dealer network.
Sen. Richard Shelby (R) and his pals are hellbent to break the UAW and as many unions as they can get their hands on and that's what is really going on here, but the media will never say that. Shelby has deep ties into the auto industry that wants unions busted.
What Shelby doesn't mention, of course, is that Alabama is a right to work state. Shelby also doesn't mention that Alabama is home to Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, and Mercedes plants.
Shelby also doesn't reveal that many of the cars those manufacturers make in Alabama, without unions, are precisely the kind of behemoths critics attack Detroit for making--only these have foreign nameplates: M-Class SUV, GL-Class SUV (a new model), Pilot SUV, Santa Fe SUV, plus engines for Tacoma and Tundra pick-ups and Sequoia SUVs.
In other words, Shelby isn't opposed to car companies that are stupidly committing and recommitting to SUVs. Rather, he's just opposed to car companies that make SUVs with union labor.
11-20-2008, 11:04 AM
#142
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No, they're asking for a loan. Assuming that the loan actually gets them out of this mess, there is no sacrifice in it for taxpayers.
CEOs don't get paid hourly. Wagoner gets his paycheck no matter how many hours he works, and no matter how much he accomplishes.
11-20-2008, 11:10 AM
#143
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11-20-2008, 11:10 AM
#144
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Sherman asked the CEOs, "I'm going to ask you to raise your hand if you are planning to sell your jet in place now and fly back commercial." "Let the record show, no hands went up," noted Sherman
Ok I change my mind. The three need to go down, not to teach a few CEo's but to teach the average retard American. We deserve to be a third world country.
Last edited by mdenz3; 11-20-2008 at 11:21 AM.
11-20-2008, 11:15 AM
#145
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11-20-2008, 11:23 AM
#146
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AIG has 7 jets..they are in the process of pairing down to 5. I wonder how the AIG reps got to Washington for their testimony? It is embarrasing how we flog the auto industry, yet the banking industry can fail on a much higher level and they get a slap on the wrist.
One thing you have to understand is good coroprate execs are like star sports players. You HAVE to pay them to come work for you, and if your are a company in the crapper like GM, you have to pay even more. No executive with half his sense would tie his name to some mess like GM unless he was set up nice for life. Think about it. If you worked for Best Buy and were a great manager..making good money...whould you take a similar job at Circuit City making less money? I know execs make in the millions...but if GM wants good ones, or to keep the ones they have motivated, they have to pay market value.
Mullay is paid well because Ford had to convince him to come from Boeing. Nardelli has some name rep (though I think he is over rated), and Chrysler paid for it. Wagoneer came through the GM system, and is really not that spectacullarly compensated vs. the other two when you look at it.
One thing you have to understand is good coroprate execs are like star sports players. You HAVE to pay them to come work for you, and if your are a company in the crapper like GM, you have to pay even more. No executive with half his sense would tie his name to some mess like GM unless he was set up nice for life. Think about it. If you worked for Best Buy and were a great manager..making good money...whould you take a similar job at Circuit City making less money? I know execs make in the millions...but if GM wants good ones, or to keep the ones they have motivated, they have to pay market value.
Mullay is paid well because Ford had to convince him to come from Boeing. Nardelli has some name rep (though I think he is over rated), and Chrysler paid for it. Wagoneer came through the GM system, and is really not that spectacullarly compensated vs. the other two when you look at it.
11-20-2008, 11:25 AM
#147
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If the media wanted to do some real reporting they would ask that bozo why he used a serious meeting with these executives as a circus of stupid questions rather than take the oppertunity to see what they had in mind for change, what would happen if they did fail, how would the money be used, what controls would be implace to prevent another AIG type bungling of the funds, etc. Their choice of transportation hails in comparisson to the poor choice this scumbag has made.
11-20-2008, 11:29 AM
#148
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Yeah, because when you're looking to borrow 25 billion dollars from the US government in an attempt to save your industry and company, you're just going to phone it in. 
Headline: "Auto industry big-wigs want $25B loan, but it's not important enough to ask for in person...they phoned in instead!"
Headline: "Auto industry big-wigs want $25B loan, but it's not important enough to ask for in person...they phoned in instead!"
11-20-2008, 11:46 AM
#149
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Frankly, they would have been bashed if they had paid for first class airfair for themselves, and all of the aids that they would take with them, also.
About the only way they would not have been bashed for paying for travel, is if they had walked............... with no shoes................. uphill................. both ways................. in a blazing snowstorm.
Then, the politicians would have bashed them for being so stupid to walk in a snowstorm............ so you are obviously too stupid to run an auto manufacturer.
In other words, they were not going to win, no matter what they did.
About the only way they would not have been bashed for paying for travel, is if they had walked............... with no shoes................. uphill................. both ways................. in a blazing snowstorm.
Then, the politicians would have bashed them for being so stupid to walk in a snowstorm............ so you are obviously too stupid to run an auto manufacturer.
In other words, they were not going to win, no matter what they did.
11-20-2008, 11:51 AM
#150
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