We have a Cessna Citation X. I have flown in it many times.

http://www.cessna.com/citation/citation-x.html

It is currently the fastest civilian aircraft made. Technically it can break the sound barrier but per FAA rules that's a no, no.

It costs $1,700 per hour to operate. That's everything, fuel, maintenance wear and tear, pilot and co-pilot salaries, etc.

I can get from Detroit to Washington DC in about .7 hours. That means:

.7 x 2 (round trip) x $1,700 = $2,380 total cost.

$20,000 is total BS

 

Interestingly enough, Toyota is considering executive pay cuts:

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/business...14TDY08309.htm

That's around $40M dollars. For all of Toyota's execs...combined!!! Toyota's CEO makes just under $1M.

FWIW, Alan Mulally earned his paycheck (estimated to be $12M this year, based on $2M in salary, $7M in bonuses, and $3M in "other") by managing to look like less of a dumbass than his counterparts. I'd suggest that GM look at making a similar investment before the next testimony before Congress.

 

Are you sure you mean "B" as in Billion???

 

Nope, I meant "M" as in Million. I'm going to go edit my post.

 

I'd like to know why a company that says it will close it's doors if it doesn't get billions in taxpayer money even has private jets at this point???

They should be stopping ALL but absolutely essential costs at this point before they even think of asking for help...hell, turn off the lights in the vending machines in the break rooms; that can save thousands of $$$/year just in one plant alone...there should be no more "free" anything for employees, especially salaried employees except what is absolutely essential to keep the doors open...there shouldn't be ANY travel (international or domestic) unless somebody will get arrested for not showing up at a hearing.

Maybe they are doing those things and just aren't talking???

They are supposed to be in desperate need...if they are in desperate need then they need to be doing disparate things to save every single penny possible before they get one cent of taxpayer money even if the money saved would just be eliminated due to "rounding" on some report.

 

Great question!!! I can tell you the hypocracy of these lawmakers / politicians is enough to make you puke!! These lawmakers are always traveling on business class jets from all kinds of corporations as well as other nations.

What is also never brought up is, many fortune 500 corporations offer 100s of FREE seats annually on their company's aircraft to people who are seeking medical attention. http://www.corpangelnetwork.org/

For those who ask why these executives did not planepool? Most corporations have rules from their board of directors that limit how many exectives can fly on one plane. In the unlikely event that the aircraft would turn in to a lawn dart, they would still have enough upper level management to run the company.

I do think it would have said a lot if all three CEOs arrived on one aircraft. Depending on how GM's G450 is configured on the inside, I'm sure it carries at least 12-14 people. No doubt, their GV holds more people.

 

I'm not saying I'm for it but, BTW.....not sure about Ford or Chrysler however, I can tell GM is not looking for free $$$ like some of the preceeding financial institutions. GM is asking for a loan with interest which, they intend to repay. If they are to get my tax money I much rather loan it to them as opposed to just give it to them. Only bad thing is I don't seen any of the interest income

 

As has been said before in these threads; it's only a loan if they actually pay it back - so far, none of the the Big 3 (or the UAW) has offered anything substantial to support the idea that they will be able to do so.

 

Ture!! It sure would be nice to hear someting concrete.

This credit crisis has frozen up money that would normally be loaned out to people to buy cars, houses etc. The big 3 have been hurting for the past few years as it was, now it's even worse for them. I just hope things level out soon. The current trend is no good for any of us who are happily employed and want to stay that way.

 

Right. GM already owes $190B to a variety of other lenders, so what makes any of us think that the government will get repaid?

Also note that the loans to the banking industry involved some serious collateral - AIG, for example, forked over 79.9% of its stock to the Treasury. We haven't yet seen that sort of commitment from the Big 2.8. Of course, 80% of GM's stock would be about $1.5B, which is a poor way to secure a $12B loan.

 

Not bad. I figured everything worst case and came up w/ $4000.

I just figured it up for AA, if you had a few days notice, round trip is $938 per head. Of course there isn't a non-stop, so you have to go through Chicago first, making it a total of 8 hours travel (not counting to and from the airports). Figure half a dozen heads, $5600. So they go on thier own plane for $3615, or they could have gone commercial and added 6 hours to their travel time and $2000 in extra expenses to the day, and all they get for their troubles are a couple of stupid politicians looking for some air time.

 

Pardon me if I'm not impressed with AIG's collateral of stock worth half per share of even what GM's is. They offered that deal well after their stock tanked from levels as high as $23 just a few months ago. And the percentage while nice doesn't matter because the US Govt. would have control of them without the need for 51% of the corp.

Maybe the car companies realize how ridiculous that deal is for the loans they are asking for.

But then again AIG was given much more taxpayer billions with far less scrutiny for a penny stock trade and when that wasn't enough they came back, asked for more, and got it. So they are obviously doing it right....

 

Well, I think there are two points to be made here. First is that while AIG's stock ain't worth sh*t now and wasn't worth much more when the deal was made, there was still an exchange of sorts that took place. This was never once offered by the Big 2.8.

The second take-away from the AIG example is that there can be a big price to pay in exchange for the government's help. Whether that be stronger regulations on what sort of cars can be built or a direct exchange of assets for loans, be damn certain that the government will extract its pound of flesh.

As become all too obvious this week, the Big 2.8 are playing out of their league. Detroit has neither the skill nor the stomach to go toe-to-toe with Washington.

 

We actually had a thread about GM removing perks and shutting down lights some time ago, and we were speculating that they can't be doing too well if that's what they're up to. Not even a month went by as we started to get these news out.

So yeah, they are doing them, it's just not talked about and you missed the other discussion.

As for the airplane, come on, there is another thread discussing how it actually may be cheaper to operate a private jet than buying plane tickets. GM is not your tiny puny company that splurged on a jet and a boat. It's a huge entity. The jet means nothing and it's just blown out of proportion. To get rid of the jet and go without it could cost them more money than keeping and using it.

But no, people can't think critically, can they? All the see is a jet and that's all.

 

Perception is reality; most especially when it's political reality we are talking about.

But, my point was that they shouldn't be doing any travel in which case they don't need private jets at all...it doesn't matter if private jets are cheaper overall than taking commercial flights...no form/method of travel is cheaper than not traveling.

On what should be rare occasions when they absolutely must travel, commercial should be good enough; even for Wagoner - if he wants to splurge he can go business class but splurging on anything should be totally gone from GM's mindset for as long as they are begging for money from the taxpayers.