If he said that 2008 is wrong, then you'd hammer him for a closer date, and he can't say, because this in itself confirms the program, which as we all know, WILL NOT be confirmed by anyone at GM.

For the quoted source to say 2008, this is obviously for something else, because it also would be a "confirmation".....I believe it's for another RWD Chevy or simply subterfuge ("bullsh*t" in layman's terms)

I take this to mean, that we've already established the "expiration date" of the agreement with the CAW's as fall of 2005. We also know that the "need" for a Camaro replacement is very high on the GM wish list, they simply cannot admit it right now..............well they did, but retracted their statements probably due to severe penalty from the labor relations board people.

"We (GM) know we dropped the ball and are trying feverishly to pick it up again.....without making the same mistakes as before"

"Hundreds of millions in tax abatements and interest free loans...not to mention the $$ lost to a possible CAW strike."

"We need to make the right decisions based on business and not emotion....."

"I like my job, I'd better shut my pie hole for now".......LOL!

 

okay guys..thanks for thie input AGAIN..this is what I mean..I would love to do an experiment on this and other boards if Icoud..maybee..but we shall see...

Red I am not testing your limits of telling whats what or knowing things..I beleive your on the up and up and respect you 100%..

Bottom line is you might hint at something diffrent but the big wigs say something else..we are a fraction of the buyers..now multiply that if this post was on like 10 boards..now 50..and you get the same response..see what I am saying? and these are the loyalist saying this..not the ones that just buy a Camaro cus its a car..those people are your cash in hand buyers but not people that love CAMARO...

Bottom line again..

Red show this to someone that can show it to Lutz...we are the ones that would buy a car like the Camaro..if he knows that this fan base will be in something else by the time a Camaro comes around...well it might happen..

well lunch break is over so I gotta get back to work..but I do have some proof to fuel my argument on what the average person like myself thinks is happeneing that might be what alot of people on here are thinking and not saying...

well I hate to be the messenger..sorry..

 

okay home from work..


I had about a 2 pager going on here but I deleted it..I said forget it..I am not going to list my thoughts about every option of performance car out there and price....all I am going to say this..for whats its worth..Red someones got to say something soon..Im not meaning you..or to get someone in trouble..there really is alot of negativity to GM right now for leaving out the bread and butter cars in our price range and performance we desire that normal everyday people like the ones on the board can buy..we are the market that is now ignored by GM..yes it is..and we as people that like power performance and speed..we see it elswhere..and because of the top GM brass saying things that make us wait and wonder or turn away in disgust....well rumors and half truths are not going to cut it today..by the time an announcement is made for something GM has comming down the road.. over anything 2+ years is too late..
we will not be around..GM has to say something that a 2 door 2+2 coupe Chevy IS COMMING! in the $25K range(something that makes us say PONYCAR or MUSCLECAR) thats all we need to hear...then it will be something to look forward to...but I tell you right now in about 2 years..I am including myself in the lineup of going to another brand for a new car..We really like the new Stang..it grew on me and a GT would be great..or even better..or the Magnum..who knows..but if there is no word in less than 2 years that my "prefered" car is on the way..well we will not be trading in what we get in 2 years..

yes we will still have my 94Z28 but as we are now till the name is back..we are hobbyist and thats all we are..tinkering with a car that was left behind...we have no car to be enthusiast to rally behind from the company that makes us go should I keep it or get the new one?? that is an enthusiast..that we are not..

I really hope I am making sense..does anyone disagree?

 

It does make sense, on the outside, but when you view what's really going on, I see GM hopefully turning things around for the better in a few years and I also see them blatantly having to cover up a car that is in the works that no one can know about but them right now. It has to be a secret or they are in trouble. While I know that the car is rumored anywhere from 06-08, (I still bet on 06 as an 07 model) I think it's safe to say that the car is being worked on and when a certain contract expires they'll be free after all this time to announce things and we'll know the details and reasons of this whole thing too. We'd all like something more certain said or annoinced, but if they can't, they can't, and that's it for now. The M*stang and even certain imports have proved that there is a market for these cars and I think whether or not the new M*stang sells good the car will still come out, there should be other competition by then and people just want this car called Camaro. Do you really think that this GM now doesn't know or care about how popular and sought after these cars are or how the enthusiasts and buying public will keep reminding them of that? It's necessary. GM has an obligation as the biggest car maker to try and win every market and if you look at future products you can tell that they will be making an effort now no matter what is said in this article or that article. Yeah, they are slow, but maybe that'll make them get things right. If the car goes until 08, it'll be a mistake, but we'll just have to wait and see for a while.

 

When they can, they will announce the new Camaro. I am only worried about what the car will become. Will it be better, will it be worse? Would I want to trade in my Z28 or SS for one, or rather keep them. Would I like it enough to keep all 3?? Will its motor be too small? Will it be IRS? Retro (gt/stang), new, or new retro (shelby cobra)? Big, small, or just right? I pray to god its a car that will fit just right next to my Vette, two 4th Gen Camaros, and a 69. OR ELSE I AM BUYING A FORD!!

 

We all wonder about that. I just hope it's done right/nicely.

 

Thats what I was thinking when I read that earlier. Guion and others have already hinted at there possibly being more than one Chevy coupe, and as you said, if this coupe were the Camaro, that would mean confirmation, which cant be done right now.

From what I understand the contract goes up in fall of 2005. After that, I would keep my ears pricked for talk of a Camaro.

If I were GM, I would have work on the Camaro done by fall '05, show a concept at NAIAS '06, throw it on sale in fall of '06. But thats just me .

 

The Camaro will return. I'll give anyone 10:1 odds on that.

The Trans Am most likely will return too. I've read that Pontiac said the Trans Am / Firebird is dead. Dead is just a word to desrcibe the fact that the car is no longer produced. So to bring it back from the dead, it will be ressurected. Considering the number of platforms shared between Chevy and Pontiac, and the Trans Am heritage, when the Camaro returns, I believe the T/A will follow soon behind.

Back to the Camaro, it is a highly recognized nameplate. GM knows this. GM is not run by "stupid" people. It is a business like any other. Yes, there is a thriving market for performance vehicles. Yes, GM knows this. Yes, GM can have more than one or two high performance vehicles, meaning the realease of a new / retro RWD V8 does not mean there will not be room for the Camaro. (Or T/A for that matter.)

There are many reasons and speculations why the Camaro was discontinued. Of personal opinion, I think it is good to give the F-body time to rest. Someone said that people will forget the Camaro, or lose interest and get something else. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing. On the contrary, GM can use this to their advantage. Many people don't care for the F-body because it is a Mullet / White Trash / (insert common stereotype here) car. Many people don't even KNOW the F-body was discontinued! GM has the opportunity to appeal to a fresh, new, younger market and build a new image.

And when it returns, MOST to ALL of their previous customer base, regardess of recent purchases, will eventually purchase a new Camaro. All the threads in 2007 will read "MAN I have to trade my GTO/Mustang/Dodge/Neon/whatever for a new Camaro!!!!!"

I love my 93. Just put in a new clutch and ECBM. I've decided I will never sell it. I'm looking at a new truck purchase soon, maybe a used Corvette a few years down. And when the Camaro returns, I'll be there.

 

Well, I've still got another years payments on the wifes Buick, so no fires here. I just wonder if GM will offer something in the Chevy/GTO variety to whet our appetites until the New Z arrives..
Maybe if we just had something (vehicle) to fill the gap with hints of the hope of things to come...
If it was good enough, I would be willing to park 2-Chevy power-houses in my drive...
But it seems that the rest of the Muscle Car World is on the "move", GM, you're gonna have some catchin' up to do!...

 

(banging head against wall..............)

OK........

I'm gonna say it again......I will NOT read between the lines for you........

First......we don't want to lose ANY customer...that said, we won't be held hostage....nor will any other manufacturer.

I would not say we said "F. U." to anyone...if you really feel that way, I can't change your mind, but I'd also say that you probably don't have a full understanding of this industry.

Now........

Mr. Lutz announced in, I believe, it was Frankfurt that we are developing a Global RWD platform........that can be adapted to many different models/needs.

........and a while back, someone (who shall go unnamed) mentioned that he was at a GM clinic and saw some really interesting cars and trucks......one particular car was VERY interesting to him........

So.......I can't stop you from bashing GM........

I also can't stop you from buying a vehicle from another manufacturer.......regardless of how much you bash........

So................once again, I'm gonna say it......and then I'm gonna "shut my pie hole" (good one, Mr. Harden...I still laugh at that one!)

Have faith.



Food for thought........

GM has managed to plug the pension fund shortfall....which was about 22 Billion (yes....spelled with a B, not an M) in the past year........connect the dots, please............

 

I've connected so many dots lately that everything has started to look like a Spirograph creation to me.

 

LMAO!! that is so funny...

 

Very nice, Gongos survey

 

Maybe all of this "dead product", has accomplished something...

Ok, who went to the fricken workshop, s p i l l....what's the 411??

 

It seems that GM is always a day late and a dollar short, that is why I have gone Mopar. Two Hemis in the garage makes me smile.