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GM NA RWD architecture

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Old Jul 7, 2005 | 07:35 AM
  #16  
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Re: GM NA RWD architecture

Originally Posted by 91_z28_4me
Ruess said Sigma rear with cost cut out. That means IRS at least for most models. I could see 1 or 2 with a live axle, ute comes to mind, but it would be the exception to the rule.
thank you.
Old Jul 7, 2005 | 08:51 AM
  #17  
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Re: GM NA RWD architecture

Originally Posted by guionM
1. It takes alot of money to tool up a factory to produce a new car.

2. GM is going to bring out an unprecidented number of new vehicles over the next few years.

3. GM has only a certain amount of cash to do it, so it's spreading things out as much as they can.

4. GM's biggest priorities are coming on line 1st. This means vehicles that have been too long in tooth as well as some trucks & SUVs.

5. GM has to also coordinate the end of production runs in factories with new models to be built there. There is only a finite group of people who do this. Again, they have to go to one plant & get it up & running, troubleshoot, then move on to another plant.

A Camaro should have been out next year, but that changed a long long time ago.

It will probably take an auto industry beancounter to beat this through my non-auto industry skull, but maybe someone would like to give it a shot.

1. GM is sitting on $25 - $30 billion cash.

2. As they must to stay in the game.

3. See #1.

4. DCX & Ford are trouncing GM in the RWD market. That would make it pretty high priority to me.

5. Offering "packages" to take good people off the payroll and then claim to not have enough people to do the work?

In my part of the world I would say:

I have the cash, I have the product pretty much ready to go, I have the manufacturing capacity, I'll bring in some people on a contract basis if need be because, I can't make a penny and start amortizing the cost of the product until it's sold!

Or in simple terms, I don't understand how delaying profitable product to "save costs" can improve the overall long-term profitability of a corporation.
Old Jul 7, 2005 | 09:35 AM
  #18  
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Re: GM NA RWD architecture

Originally Posted by poSSum
5. Offering "packages" to take good people off the payroll and then claim to not have enough people to do the work?
They are not offering the early retirement to people who are key. They are cutting down the number of unneeded employees.
Old Jul 7, 2005 | 10:20 AM
  #19  
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Re: GM NA RWD architecture

Originally Posted by 91_z28_4me
They are not offering the early retirement to people who are key. They are cutting down the number of unneeded employees.
Ouch! That'll leave mark when Red reads it.
Old Jul 7, 2005 | 11:42 AM
  #20  
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Re: GM NA RWD architecture

Originally Posted by poSSum
Ouch! That'll leave mark when Red reads it.
Haha, no kidding. Actually, I think early retirement was offered to those that have been with GM the longest, not "people they don't need." That way they could replace those people with younger people, who command less money, perhaps some straight out of college.
Old Jul 7, 2005 | 06:02 PM
  #21  
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Re: GM NA RWD architecture

Originally Posted by guionM
Nothing's approved till the green light is given to buy tooling and set up shop, so can't say that either.
There's more to launching a car than just doing the in-house design work, tooling up, and starting production. What about the supplied components? It takes a good 24 months (someone less for carryover parts) for suppliers to complete their design, validation, and tooling tasks. Now, granted, a lot of that happens in parallel with the activities on the OEM's end, but until someone from a Tier 1 or Tier 2 wants to spill the beans, it's going to be difficult to believe that there's a new Camaro coming in any less than 18-24 months.

A strut front end and multi-link rear is OK by me, as long as the geometry is right, the components are stiff enough to do the job (no more crap like the B-body rear control arms, OK?), and no one decides to stick in bushings with Charmin-like compliance. Yea, I'd prefer a good multi-link setup (if it's too expensive for GM, how'd Honda pull it off with the Civic for so many years), but I think that there's plenty of examples showing that a strut front end can work if done right.
Old Jul 7, 2005 | 11:13 PM
  #22  
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Re: GM NA RWD architecture

Originally Posted by Eric Bryant
There's more to launching a car than just doing the in-house design work, tooling up, and starting production. What about the supplied components? It takes a good 24 months (someone less for carryover parts) for suppliers to complete their design, validation, and tooling tasks. Now, granted, a lot of that happens in parallel with the activities on the OEM's end, but until someone from a Tier 1 or Tier 2 wants to spill the beans, it's going to be difficult to believe that there's a new Camaro coming in any less than 18-24 months.

A strut front end and multi-link rear is OK by me, as long as the geometry is right, the components are stiff enough to do the job (no more crap like the B-body rear control arms, OK?), and no one decides to stick in bushings with Charmin-like compliance. Yea, I'd prefer a good multi-link setup (if it's too expensive for GM, how'd Honda pull it off with the Civic for so many years), but I think that there's plenty of examples showing that a strut front end can work if done right.
Good points.
Old Jul 8, 2005 | 12:05 AM
  #23  
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Re: GM NA RWD architecture

Originally Posted by General Z
The bad thought in the back of my head is, "THE SOLSTICE WILL HAVE BEEN 54 MONTHS, AT LEAST, SINCE ITS CONCEPT FORM AT NAIAS"

That is crazy. If you had a kid the day the Solstice was shown at NAIAS....the kid would be 6 months from kidnergarden by the time it reaches production.

Hell...4 and a half years is almost a full product cylce!
Old Jul 8, 2005 | 07:09 AM
  #24  
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Re: GM NA RWD architecture

Originally Posted by formula79
That is crazy. If you had a kid the day the Solstice was shown at NAIAS....the kid would be 6 months from kidnergarden by the time it reaches production.

Hell...4 and a half years is almost a full product cylce!

If we don't see a concept at Detroit this time around, it'll be exactly for that reason....even if the concept is completed.
Old Jul 8, 2005 | 07:38 AM
  #25  
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Re: GM NA RWD architecture

Originally Posted by Z284ever
If we don't see a concept at Detroit this time around, it'll be exactly for that reason....even if the concept is completed.

The problem with that is the tech and styling cycles chnage faster then GM's development and release. They really need to stream line to capitalize on the current trends.
Old Jul 8, 2005 | 07:50 AM
  #26  
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Re: GM NA RWD architecture

Originally Posted by Eric Bryant
Yea, I'd prefer a good multi-link setup (if it's too expensive for GM, how'd Honda pull it off with the Civic for so many years), but I think that there's plenty of examples showing that a strut front end can work if done right.
1. As you are aware, the Honda Civic is FWD...so the multi link rear is far less complex.
2. The Honda Civic has basically no real HP and weighs a lot less, so the components are cheaper to build because they don't have to be as robust.

I think that's apples and oranges.
Old Jul 8, 2005 | 08:20 AM
  #27  
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Re: GM NA RWD architecture

Originally Posted by Chris 96 WS6
1. As you are aware, the Honda Civic is FWD...so the multi link rear is far less complex.
2. The Honda Civic has basically no real HP and weighs a lot less, so the components are cheaper to build because they don't have to be as robust.

I think that's apples and oranges.

This is why Honda has the highest drivetrain reliability in the industry. They produce no torque in any of their vehicles!
Old Jul 8, 2005 | 09:51 AM
  #28  
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Re: GM NA RWD architecture

Originally Posted by Chris 96 WS6
1. As you are aware, the Honda Civic is FWD...so the multi link rear is far less complex.
2. The Honda Civic has basically no real HP and weighs a lot less, so the components are cheaper to build because they don't have to be as robust.

I think that's apples and oranges.
I was refering to the issue of struts vs. multilink/SLA on the front of the vehicle. Up until the latest model cycle, the Civic had a fairly trick front-suspension setup (the Accord still has it). If Honda can afford to put such a setup on the front of a cheap FWD vehicle, then I would hope that GM could do it on the front of a more-expensive RWD vehicle. But if they decide that a strut front end is required for cost reasons, OK - I'm less concerned with the concept than I am with the execution
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