A few SS, Grand Prix, and finally Camaro items.
08-22-2002, 05:53 PM
#1
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Golden State
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A few SS, Grand Prix, and finally Camaro items.
A few days ago, I recieved a message indicating the next Grand Prix was going to be RWD. I assumed that the car he was talking about was the upcomming Grand Prix.
Later found out that he meant the NEXT Grand Prix (the upcomming Grand Prix is already done as far as he's concerned. Oops. :O ). In between time, while I was bugging a few people who would know more details, I did find some items that are interesting, though nothing really totally new or ground breaking:
*That SS concept is actually the direction that Chevrolet is planning to take with their RWD sedan. In fact, Chevy will go RWD before Pontiac (GTO not included).
*The redesigned Holden V-chassis will have some sigma components (to save money, believe it or not!) & will be the basis of Chevy's car. Cadillac-like sigma cars will be restricted only to Cadillac & Buick. Also, "Sigma-lite" IS in fact a myth.
*Chevy is the prime motivator in this RWD project, not Pontiac. They have Lutz & Cowger clearing the way, but it's still Chevy's show. They are the ones running the development (they'll also likely be sell the overwhelming majority of this chassis).
*The upcomming GrandPrix will be a relatively short lived model, planned to be around for only 3-4 years.
*The "surprises" that Lutz mentioned regarding the upcomming Grand Prix includes: a passenger seat that folds flat, a larger pass-through to the trunk, interior quality that matches CTS, and finally, the engine WILL infact make 280 horsepower (Lutz himself stepped in to ensure it). It's already finalized.
*There was to be a redesign of the FWD Monte Carlo in 2005-2006, but was cancelled & will instead, move to a different chassis with a year or 2 delay
.
The current plan is to have the production Chevy SS (or whatever it will be called) out in 2006 as a 2007 at the latest. Whatever happens with GM's efforts to streamline development and progress in chassis development can bring it here earlier, but not likely by more than a year. Camaro won't be out before the sedan. Sorry.
I mentioned my idea about Solstice using Camaro's structure to pump up volume, and it seems it isn't practical. Though some suspension & drivetrain components may be shared, the goal with Solstice is to keep it as close to the concept as possible. My idea would make a Solstice that would likely be bigger & over the weight & price targets.
Finally, of intrest to alot of you here, Camaro. Again, Chevrolet is the prime mover in developing a low cost RWD chassis. That is the program Camaro is riding on & "hiding" in, not Corvette's. That is also where it's development money is currently going, along with any other money GM can scrape up (the way I understood it, it's like the book "All Corvettes Are Red" substituting Chevy's RWD chassis for the Corvette and the Chevrolet Motor Division in place of Team Corvette). Seems that although Zarella planned to bring RWD back to Cadillac & Buick, everyone else was to make due with FWD!
The new Camaro will be back, possibly at the same time of the RWD Monte Carlo introduction(this was one individual's strong belief, and another said he can certainly see that happening) within a year or so after the sedan's introduction in 2007 to 2008 at the latest (barring problems). Still too far in the future to be certain, but at least it's in the plans.
Later found out that he meant the NEXT Grand Prix (the upcomming Grand Prix is already done as far as he's concerned. Oops. :O ). In between time, while I was bugging a few people who would know more details, I did find some items that are interesting, though nothing really totally new or ground breaking:
*That SS concept is actually the direction that Chevrolet is planning to take with their RWD sedan. In fact, Chevy will go RWD before Pontiac (GTO not included).
*The redesigned Holden V-chassis will have some sigma components (to save money, believe it or not!) & will be the basis of Chevy's car. Cadillac-like sigma cars will be restricted only to Cadillac & Buick. Also, "Sigma-lite" IS in fact a myth.
*Chevy is the prime motivator in this RWD project, not Pontiac. They have Lutz & Cowger clearing the way, but it's still Chevy's show. They are the ones running the development (they'll also likely be sell the overwhelming majority of this chassis).
*The upcomming GrandPrix will be a relatively short lived model, planned to be around for only 3-4 years.
*The "surprises" that Lutz mentioned regarding the upcomming Grand Prix includes: a passenger seat that folds flat, a larger pass-through to the trunk, interior quality that matches CTS, and finally, the engine WILL infact make 280 horsepower (Lutz himself stepped in to ensure it). It's already finalized.
*There was to be a redesign of the FWD Monte Carlo in 2005-2006, but was cancelled & will instead, move to a different chassis with a year or 2 delay
.The current plan is to have the production Chevy SS (or whatever it will be called) out in 2006 as a 2007 at the latest. Whatever happens with GM's efforts to streamline development and progress in chassis development can bring it here earlier, but not likely by more than a year. Camaro won't be out before the sedan. Sorry.
I mentioned my idea about Solstice using Camaro's structure to pump up volume, and it seems it isn't practical. Though some suspension & drivetrain components may be shared, the goal with Solstice is to keep it as close to the concept as possible. My idea would make a Solstice that would likely be bigger & over the weight & price targets.
Finally, of intrest to alot of you here, Camaro. Again, Chevrolet is the prime mover in developing a low cost RWD chassis. That is the program Camaro is riding on & "hiding" in, not Corvette's. That is also where it's development money is currently going, along with any other money GM can scrape up (the way I understood it, it's like the book "All Corvettes Are Red" substituting Chevy's RWD chassis for the Corvette and the Chevrolet Motor Division in place of Team Corvette). Seems that although Zarella planned to bring RWD back to Cadillac & Buick, everyone else was to make due with FWD!
The new Camaro will be back, possibly at the same time of the RWD Monte Carlo introduction(this was one individual's strong belief, and another said he can certainly see that happening) within a year or so after the sedan's introduction in 2007 to 2008 at the latest (barring problems). Still too far in the future to be certain, but at least it's in the plans.
08-22-2002, 08:00 PM
#3
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,873
Great. A 2009 Camaro. 
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If it breaks, it wasn't high performance enough.
2001 Mustang Bullitt GT
2000 Jetta M5
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If it breaks, it wasn't high performance enough.
2001 Mustang Bullitt GT
2000 Jetta M5
08-22-2002, 09:32 PM
#5
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Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 6,166
I guess if it is in the plans it's good, but 2009 is quite a "hiatus." I would've hoped at the absolute longest it would be back for the 40th in '07.
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Mark
94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)
The F-body will NEVER die.
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Mark
94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)
The F-body will NEVER die.
08-22-2002, 09:45 PM
#6
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,504
2 things that surprise me:
1) *The upcomming GrandPrix will be a relatively short lived model, planned to be around for only 3-4 years.
Wow. Hardly seems worth it. The have to end up losing cash on this if true... if not, then why the heck do so many cars end up being dinosaurs?!?
2) 2008-2009 for a Camaro is simply too long. All these other 'pony' cars, if they come true (ie. new Mustang, Charger, 350Z, etc) will all have a big foothold.
I've really tried to control myself as far as going overboard. I was mad when the cancelled the F-Body, I was mad when there was no replacement.... but if I am expected to wait until 2008 or 9 or whatever... then, seriosuly, that means GM just does not want my business for this type of car. That is a LONG time to be out of the game.
1) *The upcomming GrandPrix will be a relatively short lived model, planned to be around for only 3-4 years.
Wow. Hardly seems worth it. The have to end up losing cash on this if true... if not, then why the heck do so many cars end up being dinosaurs?!?
2) 2008-2009 for a Camaro is simply too long. All these other 'pony' cars, if they come true (ie. new Mustang, Charger, 350Z, etc) will all have a big foothold.
I've really tried to control myself as far as going overboard. I was mad when the cancelled the F-Body, I was mad when there was no replacement.... but if I am expected to wait until 2008 or 9 or whatever... then, seriosuly, that means GM just does not want my business for this type of car. That is a LONG time to be out of the game.
08-22-2002, 10:33 PM
#8
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,381
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Captain Jeff Z28:
2009.
Better never than late.
Jeff
</font>
2009.
Better never than late.
Jeff
</font>
I was hoping 2006 at the latest, i think if GM put their mind together they can do it.
WTF GM WTF???
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1995.5 3.8L V6 red Camaro with a nice *** sound system.
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08-22-2002, 10:37 PM
#10
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Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 201
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by CamaroJim:
haha 2009.....dont even bother GM!!
we'll all be elsewhere</font>
haha 2009.....dont even bother GM!!
we'll all be elsewhere</font>
I'll be long gone way before that!
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One day at a time
1-16-92
08-22-2002, 10:51 PM
#11
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 538
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ronssito:
Damn right.
I'll be long gone way before that!
</font>
Damn right.
I'll be long gone way before that!
</font>
why so soon! 2009
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1995 Red Z28
98 Z28 Wheels
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08-23-2002, 03:53 AM
#15
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 599
Chevy may have a history of being late, but the Camaro being 2-3 years behind the Mustang for most of their history, and then "hey let's just not have a Camaro for 7 years (!!) and let Mustangs and anyone else who wants to put out an alternative take all our market" are kind of different.
I mean Christ, Ford canned the T-bird in 97, and it only took them 5 years to make a completely new car out of it.
Oh well, I like my Camaro, I'll probably hold onto it. It'll probably be the last GM I ever buy, the way things are looking.
They're showing time and time again that they're just a truck company. A bunch of good trucks and a fleet of crummy rental cars. Oh but wait, if I have $40K or more, there are a few interesting cars? Please. For the prices they're jumping into I could get more car from any number of manufacturers.
We have a GTO that'll be subject to huge dealer markup and probably cost $40K, a Corvette that starts at $45K, and some high $30K's Caddilacs?
And in the under $30K range we don't have a RWD car coming out for 5 years?
Why the hell shouldn't I buy a Mustang GT, or a WRX, or a 350Z? Hell, we'll have a new Supra, the RX-8, the Hemi Charger...all well before the Camaro might hypothetically come back if it can piggyback on top of another RWD program.
Cheap performance is dead at GM. And the longer they take to bring it back, the more people move on and forget that they were ever any good.
Oh wait, I'll run right back to GM when I want an underpowered car with bland styling, an automatic transmission and a sub par interior.
If I wanted a FWD V6, I could buy a Mitsubishi.
------------------
Jason
<A HREF="http://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/munche" TARGET=_blank>1997 A4 Z28 "Mongoose"
</A>
<A HREF="http://www.iz-us.com/images/cars/cougar/" TARGET=_blank>New Project: 1969 Mercury Cougar 351W
</A>
I mean Christ, Ford canned the T-bird in 97, and it only took them 5 years to make a completely new car out of it.
Oh well, I like my Camaro, I'll probably hold onto it. It'll probably be the last GM I ever buy, the way things are looking.
They're showing time and time again that they're just a truck company. A bunch of good trucks and a fleet of crummy rental cars. Oh but wait, if I have $40K or more, there are a few interesting cars? Please. For the prices they're jumping into I could get more car from any number of manufacturers.
We have a GTO that'll be subject to huge dealer markup and probably cost $40K, a Corvette that starts at $45K, and some high $30K's Caddilacs?
And in the under $30K range we don't have a RWD car coming out for 5 years?
Why the hell shouldn't I buy a Mustang GT, or a WRX, or a 350Z? Hell, we'll have a new Supra, the RX-8, the Hemi Charger...all well before the Camaro might hypothetically come back if it can piggyback on top of another RWD program.
Cheap performance is dead at GM. And the longer they take to bring it back, the more people move on and forget that they were ever any good.
Oh wait, I'll run right back to GM when I want an underpowered car with bland styling, an automatic transmission and a sub par interior.
If I wanted a FWD V6, I could buy a Mitsubishi.
------------------
Jason
<A HREF="http://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/munche" TARGET=_blank>1997 A4 Z28 "Mongoose"
</A>
<A HREF="http://www.iz-us.com/images/cars/cougar/" TARGET=_blank>New Project: 1969 Mercury Cougar 351W
</A>