What are these people called? Last time I checked, they were consumers. Not posers. You were being rude.

People have the right to do whatever the hell they want with their cars. If someone wants to slap a blower on their V6, more power to them. I'd rather see them do that than mod a Scion...wouldn't you? And that's the entire point here. More cars sold = more money in the program = more money for fun toys = more sales and image for Chevy.

So, again, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT?

Camaro will appeal to the same kinds of people Mustang appeals to, next time around. To do this, it needs all the options of a Mustang and then some. Will it sell as many? If they get the car right, it could. Its just a shame to see you down the V6 cars, and for others here to not even see the point. The low price of entry and lower insurance is crucial to many. If you want the car to be a success, it needs to sell as many units as it can.

But to call V6 buyers "posers" is pretty asinine, IMO. Did it ever occur to you there's more to a car than the engine?

 

Camaro V6 vs Cobalt???! You're kidding, right?

One is has 4 cylinders, the other a V6.

One is a FWD economy car, the other is a V6 powered pony car.

One cones in a sedan, the other doesn't.

One is tall and narrow, and the other isn't.

I'm not flaming or slamming anyone, but this reminds me of the guys who used to post threads insinuating that Camaros and Monte Carlos stepped on each other's toes, and those guys who couldn't tell the difference between a RWD large coupe and a small rwd coupe like the Camaro. It's called different markets.

The only overlap even remotely possible is the person who has to decide whether to spend his $21,000 to get a Cobalt SS or use that money to get a good V6 Camaro. Outside that, there isn't a thread of overlap.

Again, not slamming anyone, it's just that it amazes me away that Camaro had the same greenhouse design as Corvette, had the same engine like Corvette, had a suspension that handled the track as well as a Corvette, even had a version called the Firebird Trans Am that even looked like a Corvette from hell, yet there are people worried about a RWD Monte Carlo replacement or a FWD 4 cylinder econo car taking sales away from an F-body that has an entirely different target group than either.


If you buy a Cobalt SS, you're into blowers, and you tend to be an import fan and a "tuner" (do it yourselfer) who frequents the local cruise scene. If you buy a Camaro V6, then just like V6 Mustang buyers, you're into getting a car that has alot of style, alot of value, and has quite a bit of kick when you feel frisky. Different group, different demographics.

 

Wouldn't we also want people to try and choose between two chevys? Isn't that a win-win situation?

now


People DO buy V6 Camaros new. I havn't yet because they stopped selling them by the time I was financially able to buy a new one. I will be buying a new Camaro when I return from Germany (2009-2010 timeframe) and it will be a V6 or a Base V8 not a SS or Z/28. I don't race on the weekends or from stoplight to stoplight but I want a stylish, RWD car with enough power to get out of its' own way/ push the kids back in the seat...something to take on a weekend trip to a car show or to the beach. I don't need or want a uber-powerful Camaro, it serves me no purpose. That still makes me a valuable consumer for Chevy/GM.

 

Of course they have a right to do whatever they want with their cars.

And actually, i can understand why someone would want to put a blower on a Scion A LOT easier than i can understand why someone would spend the differential between a V6 and a V8 to make the V6 fast. In the case of the scion, there is no easier and cheaper way to go fast in that body style. Spending thousands modding a V6 camaro is counter productive unless you're so cheap that saving a few bucks on insurance matters to you (at thecost of reliability and man-hours doing thelabor maintaining a highly modified car). A blown V6 is in no way shape or form a sleeper though, blower whine = you know the owner has done something to the car != sleeper.

As to which i'd rather see, doesn't matter at all to me, i won't be buying either. If the next camaro is anything like the 4th gen, i think i'd rather have a blown scion myself though.

The vast majority of V6 buyers are doing so because they either don't want the V8 power, or can't afford it. After all, if they wanted a V8 and could afford it, they would have bought it right?

Back on topic though, the point so many keep missing is, V6 camaro buyers don't care if a colbalt SS or SRT4 or even nissan altima is faster than their V6 camaro. They buy a V6 because that's what they want style wise. If power mattered and they had the lot they would buy a V8. If they want to be the fastest for the least money, V6 camaro HAS NEVER and WILL NEVER be the answer. And 4th gen proved pretty well, that having faster V6 and V8s than mustang doesn't mean a damn thing if noone wants the car wrapped around it.

 

Know what I want my V6 Camaro to be faster than?

A V6 Mustang. That is the V6 Camaros competition.

I don't care about the Cobalt SS (except I want it to succeed).

 

Bingo! Once again, Jason E makes a great point. I fall into the catagory of "if i could have afforded the z28 at the time, i would be driving one". However, college education tends to be rather expensive, hence the V6. Now however I have a PAID OFF V6 to play with till word of a 5th gen Z28 comes around. 4th gen Z28's are cool, but not cool enough to get another 10-13k in car payments for. So a supercharger will suffice till a 5th gen comes around.

Anyhow.......

I think Guy put it best to what the base Camaro needs to offer. However with power levels of even bread and butter sedans increasing, the base car has to have a little bit of a kick. The 05 Mustang base car bumped its power output to be more with the times. Camaro should do the same. Not land rocket fast but enough to be enjoyable.

 

Someone who has little change in their pocket who wants a fast, fun car should probably be in the USED car market, no? Nothing wrong with that mind you, hell i waited until 5 years AFTER i graduated college to buy my first brand new car, and i've been a gainfully employed engineer for all of those 5 years.

BTW, you certainly COULD have afford a Z28 when you bought that V6. Not the same year, but an older Z28 is always more affordable than a brand new V6. If you prioritized the body style over performance, then congratulations for supporting my point that performance is secondary to style even to 'performance minded' V6 buyers.

 

Used V8 cars don't come with a warranty, Unless they offer an extended warranty which is expensive and cost money to use.

Some people are not so fixed on getting a V8 that they are blind to other important items like warranty and financing (which is less on a new car than old).

 

A lot of people make it through college in older cars with no warranty. They do so by not stretching themselves by not making payments on a 20K car and instead buying something MUCH cheaper, pocketing the difference and living with need to pay for an occasinal water pump or starter. Even if you fry a tranny in a used Z28, it'd still be cheaper in the end than a brand new V6. You lost more money driving that new V6 off the lot than you'd ever make up in repair costs.

Some people are not so fixed on getting a camaro that they are blind to other important items like not taking on $400 a month car payment and full coverage insurance on a new car.

 

You really, really don't get it...do you?

A quick Auto Trader search just found me a 2002 Camaro 3.8 with 40k, t-tops and leather for $9995. What does $9995 buy me with a V8? '98 Z28 with 70k, comparably equipped.

So, I go 4 years older, with 30k miles more, for the same money. I wouldn't do it if I had $10k to play with. People don't necessarily prioritize body style over performance. They buy the "better" car for them. They buy what they can afford to buy. If/when I had $20-22k to spend on a new car, I buy what I can afford...a 5th gen V6. Over a Cobalt SS. Like I said, there's a lot more to a car than the HP rating. A 4th gen V6 has 2/3 of the power (as a 3800), 85% of the handling, and all of the style of a 4th gen V8. All for at least $4k less, comparably equipped, brand new.

So using that logic, the halo effect thrown off by the V8s alone will draw people into the showroom, and guide them to the V6s if their wallet can't handle it. That leads to more sales. That leads to more GM owners. That leads to more chances for repeat business. Eventually, when the new owners trade them in, and the cars are re-purchased in the used car market, there are more Camaros out there for used car buyers. The V6s will have a lower point of entry, price-wise. The people that can more easily buy these may be more likely to purchase a new Camaro, or other Chevy, down the road.

I started out with a 135hp, 2.8 '89 Camaro in 1998. That car sealed me as a GM owner for life. It was fun, cheap to insure, remains the most beautiful car I'll probably ever own (don't get me started on how much better looking an RS Camaro, sans the silly stripes and hood louvers of the IROCs, is versus a 4th gen), and was as reliable as the day is long. I've now owned 7 GM cars, and purchased one brand new. Its a domino effect. If more people have access to the car, more people can buy it, love it, and move on to other related products.

Why people hate the V6 concept, I will not understand. Its completely retarded...pardon my lack of a better word. The martian himself said we'll have a V6, so obviously he knows (and GM knows) something a lot of you just simply cannot comprehend...people want a sporty, fun car that doesn't have to nail you back in the seat. And, you can insure it. And, its cheaper. Go figure...

 

I think some people here hate the V6 because they have engine on the brain, and not much else car-wise.

Although I have the means to buy a Mustang GT, I can easily see the circumstances I'd buy a Mustang V6. I'm sure the same would apply to a 5th gen if it were out right now. Yes, over a Cobalt SS. Why?

Mustang is a great overall package with style and performance, not to mention RWD. I don't need a 13 second 1/4 mile car for nothing more than bragging rights. I need something that handles very well, is pretty darn quick, and can comfortably cruise at 80-100 mph all day which we have a frequent opportunity to do this out here in Cal-Nev-Ariz area.

Also, the V6 Mustang (or Camaro) has cheap insurence, and has a personalization list from both the factory and the aftermarket longer than your arm.

My sister has a Black 3800 '96 Camaro 5 speed, and I love that car as much as mine. She still takes on ricers.... and wins.

Anyone who says that V6 Mustang or Camaro buyers arte posers IMHO has their heads up their bottom end. Not everyone wants, needs, or desires the most overpowered piece of machinery of a model..... even those who CAN afford it.

 

guion, well put I feel the exact same way.

 

Read Guy's original post Glove. I wasnt talking about just power. I was referring to his post as in the whole package deal, interior/exterior fit and finish, quality, value, ergonomics, etc. THATs what I was referring to. And Yes that HAS WORKED on the Mustang V6 and thats why it sells.

And thank you Guy and Jason for supporting my points. The V6 I bought was NOT brand new so i didnt choose to buy a NEW V6 over an OLD v8. However I see Jason E's point to having a warranty and such on a new V6 to an AS IS older v8. But for me, plain and simple, v8 insurance was too high. LS1's were ridiculous and the only LT1's I could have gotten into were 93-94 LT1 cars which most here in Florida had at least 80-90k on the clock. Sorry, thats not gonna swing it. So the next best step was the most affordable 3800 car. Hence my 98 with 28k for 10k was a steal for me.

Sorry for slightly getting off topic, its a little hard to drive a point home to some people here.....

 

You guys need to realize that this is 7 pages of him argueing against every sane reply to him. You are never going to convince him. He just wants to "win", he could care less what the battle is.

 

This is true