While you are completely right, dont confuse him with the facts. He will have an argument for each sentence you wrote.

 

Gloveperson, you live in new jersey, same as i do. honestly, on a daily basis, what do you see more of V8s or V6s(4th gens)? when i go back and forth on 287 i usually see alot more V6s than i ever do V8s, same thing where i live and where my girlfriend lives(which is up by you i might add). a V6 F body is what it is. it's the same reason people buy fake oakley sunglasses or fake rolexs compared to the real ones. they want the look without the price.

 

I do not think the LX cars are a good indication of anything relating to pony car sales. They are aimed more at the family demographic where you need a larger car but want something with a little power. I'm not so sure you could make an image argument with the LX cars, other than maybe something relating to the "Hemi" brand itself. I don't personally think that is the case, but I think that argument could be made.

At any rate, I don't know enough about the LX cars to speculate as to why the Hemi sells so well. Perhaps the base engines are too weak. Or perhaps people do want Hemi power, which requires them to buy one of a few ugly cars if they don't want a truck.

If we want to get back to a discussion about the pony car segment, then we should consider the one vehicle that has consistantly done well and that is the Mustang. If you want to compete in that segment then obviously you need to take notice of the formula Ford has used. It is not just the name that drives people to buy Mustangs. Sure, the name might get them in the showrooms, but if they don't like the car they aren't going to plunk down tens of thousands of dollars.

I cannot comment on whether women think the Mustang is a girl's car or not. I can however state that it is obvious that women felt the Mustang was more in line with what they wanted from a car than the 4th Gen. But why is that? I don't think it was the name specifically. Eclipse has consistantly sold to more women than men and I doubt that has anything to do with the name.

 

The 3.8 Camaro was also almost as fast as the pre-99 Mustang Gt and much faster than the 135?hp V6 Mustang. The lack of power didn't hurt the V6 Mustang's sales (even to the faster GT) and that car was so slow it's hard to believe.

It's not about power, the new V8 Camaro is not going to have the speed advantage over other cars as it had with the 4th gen either. I'd be more worried about the V8 sales where performance is more important.

 

I agree with those who say that cobalt SS and camaro V6 are 2 entirely different cars. One is a cheap performance FWD car, the other is a cheap RWD car for posers who want to look like they have a faster car.

If they cared that a cobalt SS, or SRT4, or any number of other cars on the market were faster than a V6 camaro, then they wouldn't be buying one anyway. If being the fastest was what they wanted, they'd buy a V8 camaro, or one of the other top dog performance model cars out there.

Also a point that some people seem to miss is, the next camaro damn well better be able to project a positive image and be a car people want to be seen in. If not, it'll be DOA and gone again shortly, period.

There is also a tremendous history of sporty cars with base models to produce volume. There were plenty of non-turbo supras, RX7s, 300Zs, and even mustangs and fbodies through the years. Even Porsche makes non-turbo 911s, and there are small engine versions of BMW and mercedes too. Who the hell would buy a 525 when a 330 will smoke it? Oh wait, they're 2 different cars with 2 different markets, despite looking almost identical if not for the 5 being bigger.

Also important to note. fbodies last outsold mustang during the thirdgen run, when there was a plethora of engine options available in any given year.

 

The Cobalt SS is a cool car. I hope the V6 Camaro turns out to be a very cool car as well....even cooler.

I feel confident that GM will get some things right.
I believe the next Camaro will have a great interior. An interior far beyond what we've ever seen on a Camaro.
I believe it will be a very solid car, with world class structural rigidity
I believe it will handle also. Yes, cost will be taken out of the chassis, but in the end, I'm expecting BMW levels of chassis dynamics.

So far sounds very cool.

But I have concerns also......

How cool would a V6 Camaro, the size and weight of a GTO be? I think not very. Will "Jenny the receptionist" think that's cool. I don't think so.

Sure hope that GM doesn't blow it.

 

Saying that everyone who buoght and drives a V6 Camaro is a "Poser" is quite a rude and very untrue stereotype. If it wasn't for the V6 owners, your V8 wouldn't be around.

 

I hope they did something w/ the old J body suspension. Cause it sucked before. Too much body roll.. I'd seriously get a Cobalt SS for a daily driver. I think it'd be kewl.. I'm also somewhat of a closet ricer too...

 

I agree

Guess some people dont realize that no matter how much hp it has, a FWD car is not a sports car. As far as the "poser" stereotype goes, when my powerdyne comes in and makes its way onto the 3800, we'll see just how "poser" my "little v6" is.....

The Cobalt shouldnt be compared to the old J-bodies. Much, much better car in all aspects. Take all the memories of the J-bodies and throw them away when you talk about the Cobalt.

 

On a largely unrelated side note, why does everyone expect the $25K Camaro model (Z28?) to have the 5.3L engine?

I'd be fuming mad if it did, the 5.3L engine, while not bad, is slightly LESS powerful than the LS1. Besides, it's always been traditional for all V8 Camaros to have the same engine as the Corvette...they've been doing this since the 80s, possibly earlier.

I would expect no less than an LS2 in the $25K Camaro Z28 or SS. After waiting for what will turn into 7 years, I'd be sorely disappointed if the new Camaro's base V8 powertrain was a downgrade from the 2002 model, putting it in Mustang GT territory.

 

The $25k model (if we get one) will be a base car with a 5.3. An SS and/or Z28 will be a 6.0 for sure. Also, the 5.3 is 303hp in the cars, and 355hp in the trucks. The old LS1 was 310hp, but that was for Z28s/Formulas/TAs. I'd be thrilled to have somewhere between 303hp and 355hp as the BASE V8.

What the hell is wrong with that? And by the way, for all the V6 complainers...I look forward to a 3.9 base car It might make my fiance a nice new car if we ever get out of New England!

 

Whoa, I just read this part of your post. You are kidding, right? 400hp for $25k? What turnip truck did you just fall off of? Not likely...nor is it really needed.

Expect $30k for the 400hp, which next to a 340hp Charger and loaded 300hp Mustang for the same $$, seems to work just fine

 

one reason i i like mustang's line... more models..v6, gt, steeda, saleen, cobra, mach, ect...

 

The cobalt isnt a Jbody.

 

The VAST majority of people who buy V6 camaros (or mustangs for that matter) could care less about end all be all speed. Therefore, i see no reason to apologize, i wasn't trying to be rude, and i'm willing to take suggestions for what you want me to call people who want to look fast, but don't want to spend the extra money on the car, gas and insurance to really do it. There is nothing noble about slapping a blower on a V6, you've killed the sleeper image off as soon as it has a whine under the hood. You might think so, but color me unimpressed, i mean, of course if you;'re willing to throw money at a car it will go faster. "when i slap a blower on my...." is the lamest line ever and just feeds the stereotype guys, because after all, "when i put H/C and some nitrous on my...." Why don't you buy the parts, get the slips and have a nice glass of STFU in the meantime. Until you're ready to buy a brand new car instead of a very used car, you're irrelevent anyway. I.E. NO ONE buys a brand new V6 and blows the warranty by modding it out the ***, instead of just buying a V8 outright and being faster and still having a warranty

Again, I'm so happy that some of you are willing to blow enough money to buy V8 cars on modding USED V6s to catch up, but understand, you are 1 in a million. People like you won't keep the fbody alive. People have to want a (V6) camaro because it's a good looking, nice car. It doesn't matter in the least if you can mod a V6 to catch up to a V8 for overall sales.

I have 2 new mustangs in my parking lot at work. Both V6, both owned by secretaries IN THEIR LATE 40s. Camaro has to be able to appeal to some of those kinds of buyers or it will die. And i can assure you, neither of those secretaries care if there is a blower available for it, or that a cobalt SS is faster than their car. They wanted mustang for the image alone, and those are the people that buy volume brand new cars.