I think the Vue Red Line is pretty sporty. but at the same time the interior sucks, and I don't want to buy a GM car with a Honda motor. It makes no sense to shove that Honda motor in there instead of using GM's 3.6 DOCH motor that makes a similar output.

Also I believe Saab now makes a sporty version of the Trailblazer. I deem it the Saazer. I also feel for Saab enthusiasts who have seen the quirkyness go way down, and the appalling fact that they sell a Trailblazer and a Suburu instead of a Saab

 

The 9-7x and 9-2x are 2 cars that Saab needs. Instead of waiting several years for a Saab SUV, and for Saab to continue to lose possible buyers, they took a proven and very good GMT-360 chassis, and gave it a Saab like flare in and out.
As for the 9-2x, Saab has deffinatly done a lot to that car to make it a more Saab-like car then Subie. I think they were both 2 great ideas and 2 great entries into there respective market.

I never understood what was soooo bad abotu the Tblazer outside of its interior? The Saab has a new interior, so that solves that problem? The chassis itself is still very good, as are the engine choices. I can see if some people having a problem with a pushrod 5.3 in there, but it makes great power with good fuel economy. Dont forget the center mounted igniton.

 

LOL, you are a funny man. Al, I have been giving you crap for a long time now......... you just make it so easy.

Ok, I issue you a challange.................. please tell us about a current/future GM product that sucks. I want all the juicy details. Don't you dare use the Cavalier.......... it is dead.

The reason you get so much sh*t is that you will defend GM to the end. You never say they do anything bad. Quite the contrary, as when anyone bashes GM for anything ........... you run right in there to set them straight. Or, when anyone praises Ford for anything.......... you again have to rush right in the middle of it to show them the error of their ways. While I favor Ford, I will not defend them to the end............ as has been proven by my stance on the Lightning (I am the one who has started all of the letter/fax/e-mail stuff, btw). On the contrary, I have been rather harsh toward them, not only on the net, but in my letters and e-mails even more so. I have also eliminated my future purchase plans of Ford vehicles.

For goodness sakes, someone said they liked the new Ford commercial campaign. Not the cars........... just the campaign............ and you practically trip over your keyboard to tell them just how wrong they are.

I will repeat myself here............ anyone who brags about the Monte Carlo SS, and the Impala SS, suffers from a severe case of rose colored contacts.

I believe the 3.5 will be out in a year or so. Ford has given noone an exact date.

PS. Al, it is just fun to pick on you. Passion is a wonderful thing. I hope you extend that passion to your wife.

PSS. What is wrong with the Trailblazer is that it has no soul or passion. It rides like my 1993 4-door EB Explorer did stock. While it looks nice on the outside, the inside looks cheaper than that same 1993 Explorers interior did. It has a great engine, what would be so wrong of GM letting one of the 48 varieties, short of the Saab (sorry, I have a problem with that), actually get some stiffer shocks and springs??? Maybe an anti-roll bar that actually prevents some roll??? Maybe a brake pedal that isn't spongy. This is all I ask, and I ask it of every market segment from every manufacturer.

 

If Al is as passionate with his wife as he is with GM, she's one lucky woman... or one that is really sore .

I can name a whole line of products by GM that I think suck.... SAAB

1) I don't know the purpose of them, is it like Ford's ownership of Mazda? Just random?

2) Why in the world do people think they look good? (wonders the same thing about people who lust over BMW) The 9-3 or whatever is supposed to be a sports car (I think) and it's just a BMW look alike with a funny rear end.

3) I really just don't like seeing them, they are so weird looking and boring. It is just another brand of car that I really don't like being surrounded by (ex: Volvos, boxy VWs, SUVs, BMWs, etc.)

Now... this is my opinion... don't jump on me if you love Saabs... She said name one that sucks so I named an entire line

 

GM brought their game; right out of Ford's market. The 50k sport sedan? GM doesn't have to worry about Ford there anymore. They're competing with the RS6, S4, M3 and M5 at that point. Good luck convincing those buyers that Caddy is a good value.

I wouldn't say the SSR is a "Sport truck", more of an "overpriced, underpowered retro gimmick" which the Thunderbird has already treaded that market.

Admittedly, with the lapse in SVT, the lack of the Focus and Lightning darken the shine of Ford's performance lineup. But just throwing your hat in the ring does not make you a winner. The supercharged Impy and Monte are about as sporty as the Crown Vic. And at least that's RWD. Ford doesn't have a Corvette, sure enough. GM doesn't have a Ford GT. For me? I'm more of a sub-30k buyer anyways, so I could really give a damn. And I imagine you're pretty much the same Al, seeing as you own a Malibu and a 20 year old Camaro. Why do you or I care about the CTSv or the Vette? Sure, they're nice to see and lust after on the street, but so is a Ferrari. It'll be a looooong time before I can ever afford either, I just hope I have a comfortable diaper on by then so I can enjoy the pants-crapping acceleration.

In the mean time? Cobalt will be nice when it comes out. Oh, and since GM gets to use all of it's brands...where's GM's competition for the Miata, or the Mazdaspeed 6? Where's GM's manual transmission option? Sport shift automatic does not count, hell Mazda offers BOTH.

And honestly Al, if there are threads where you say what you don't like about GM, I'd love to see them. Mostly it's "IF YOU GUYS DON'T LIKE GM GO BUY A MUSTANG, FORD SUCKS HA HA HA HA" reworded 1000 times.

 

I wish someone would give me an "underpowered hot rod truck" (ssr)... that way I could have the 390 horsepower engine put in my underpowered 275 horsepower Camaro Z28 . How can you consider 390 hp underpowered? If anything, I think it is overpowered. If I was in charge of Chevy, I would have put a 250 hp engine in that retro gimmick truck. Would have lowered the price and gotten some sold. What are the selling ratings for the SSR? Anyone know? I see more Dodge Vipers than SSRs .

But seriously... if anyone wants to give me an SSR I'll take it... and chop it up and upgrade my f-body

 

MunchE, you have to understand Al's rules. You only ask where is Fords version of something............ but you never ask where is GM's version of anything. Thus, you have the answer to your question before you ask it.

This way, GM is always golden, and Ford always sucks.

It's kinda like polling, or surveys. You take a preconceived objective, and word your questions to fullfill your objective. In other words, pretty much everyone has to agree with you, or they look stupid. If you want to show that the majority of Americans support the elimination of private gun ownership in America.......... all you have to do is word your quesion appropriately. You would ask "if it could be proven that eliminating all private gun ownership in America would eliminate all violent crime, would you support a measure to eliminate all private gun ownership??" Anyone who says no looks like an idiot........... and the headline in the paper reads, "Majority of Americans support the elimination of all private gun ownership."

I realize my example is a bit extreme, but it makes the concept very simple.

The thing is, there is an Al for all manufacturers. I have read immense amounts of drivle about almost any vehicle............ and pretty much any manufacturer. It's not a bad thing, as it does offer comic relief.

 

your right ,he is a big windbag.I did take your advice al.I bought 2 2005 Mustang GT's.Wanna race???

 

That's right, the SSR now actually has a reasonable amount of HP, I just checked Chevy's site.

SSR in Slingshot Yellow (extra cost color option) with dealer-installed running boards from Chevy Accessories.
Price as shown $44,150*

So, a 390hp, 2 seat sports car from Chevy, with very limited towing and hauling ability?

Sounds like a 'vette to me. Why buy an SSR?

 

I personally think Saab sucks also.....I dont know why they hae to have that funky look....I LOVE the interiors and the engine/tranny options but the exteriors are just fugly.

If the Saab looked more like...well i dont know...but if the Saabs werent so darn abstract(to me) then I'd have one in the driveway. Well probably not but it would at least be an option and I woud recommend it to people, een though its not for me. Thats IF they didnt-look-so-darn-funny...

I've never driven one but I bet its fun to drive and inspirational, while getting decent mileage, comfortable(even for me: 6ft tall) it just needs the right look to go with all of that.


Back on topic, yes, Fords commercials suck...I can attest to this because I watch at least 3-4 hours of TV on an average day, and I cant remember a SINGLE ONE. Ok now Im remembering one, but I cant put my finger on it. I remember the Saab commercials though Dont know why they arent special....

I remember most of the GM truck commercials, and of course the "Hemi" commercials(I liked those, but you still wont see any dodge in my driveway.

Thats dodge with a lower-case "d"

 

So, a 390hp, 2 seat sports car from Chevy, with very limited towing and hauling ability?

Sounds like a 'vette to me. Why buy an SSR? [/QUOTE]

YEEEESSSSSS why anyone would buy that as apposed to a vette is beyond me. Maybe you wan't to avoid the "midlife crisis" stereotype but ****, what does an SSR say, im tasteless, ghey, having a midlife crisis, need lots of trunk space? All of the above

I THINK, that is tries to merge to polar markets. When I see it I think, Miata, Z4, PT Cruiser, roadsters that are fun but by no means ballsy, and the PT for people want to drive something different. But I don't think almost any of those people care about 400hp? Nor I do believe most of the hp people want to drive something that quirky?

And big Al is right If you compare the lines GM has a lot more performance offerings. They may be out of this boards price range, not meat their specifications, or not meet already established standards but they are there. With no new SVT products this year, its all stang and HD F-150 and the GT.

 

Wana hear what I think is wrong with GM? Do you really? You have time to read it all?
I am going to cut it up a lot.
Ill break it down to each division.
First, Saturn.
GM has let this division turn to crap. It was a great idea that was poorly funded or engineered. DROP THE PLASTIC PANNELS ALREADY! Its killing them. Poor fit in finish for just a gimick? Please. Go to sheetmetal and be done with it.
How come that the division that was supposed to keep up with Toyota and Honda is now trying to keep up with Hyundai? GM's future plans for Saturn is good, but it needs to come faster. How can GM be so blind and not see how great the reviews of the new Opels are? They need to bring them to the US without touch. Rename Saturn to Opel if you will. It will deffinatly give a import feel...because it is an import and does not have to follow the laws of the UAW/CAW. The idea of Saturn is great, they just need to have better product. The Ion and Vue are great cars...as an idea. Its the build quality that blows. GM is learning and they cut out all the cancer on the Ion.
Chevy
Please, dont get me started. My brand is my biggest pet peve. WTF is with the 30 year old truck interiors? This is your bread and butter stuff! Its the only thing you have over the Asians, and you put very little money into it! Engines and design look great...but inside is horrible.
How about holding on to such dear cars like the old Malibu, S10 and Blazer. LET IT GO ALREADY!! Just cut the dead weight. All that money going into keeping the plant in operation could go to a more imporved Tahoe or Colorado.
I will let the quality of the Impala and Monte go since GM is fixing them as we speak. Good job, but very late if you ask me. It seems to be a main theme in GM as being slow or delaying different cars on the same line up, but eh...I understand. I think they just need to see what they need now.
Also, the new cars like the Malibu and Nox. First, the Malibu. A car I own, and a car that I nit pick daily. Its a very nice car, dont get me wrong. But I have a list that could make the Malibu better. I wont go into depth with it, but the Malibu lacks certain things that would make it a deffinate alternative to the Camry.
The Nox...a very awesome SUV. I did like it and it was my 2nd choice when I was looking at cars. What got me down was the waste-of-space 3.4. Why not the 3.5? I hope that rumors are true and that when 3.5 produciton ramps up, they will find its way under the hood of the Nox. The 5spd as well as the AWD set up and the most room I have seen in a suv of that size does make it a good SUV, but power is what but me behind the wheel of the Maxx.
I wish GM tested the Colroado and Canyon beyond 4k lbs in towing. At least match the outgoing S10.
The Tblazer is a great SUV, it just needs a serious update interior wise. Lutz needs to get elbow deep in the GMT-360's and mold us a serious interior.
Pontiac
This is deffinatly tied with Chevy is things I hate about it.
What is with the Vibe? GOOD BYE. Let it go GM. You can make a car that is much better, and with a MUCH better engine. At least find a way to fit a 2.0 ecotec or something. That 1.8 was the only reason that kept me away fro mthe Vibe.
G6, good job. Again, like the Malibu, I wish GM did a few things different, but overall a much better package then the Malibu.
Sunfire...GOOD BYE! Can we please get a unique(read:not rebadge) Delta Pontiac? How about a 3 and 5dr hatchback? Kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Let the Sunfire and Vibe go, and you also have 2 cars that are different then the Chevy cousin. Less saturation. If you want a hatch, Pontiac is you ticket. If you want a sporty coupe, Cobalt. Want a 4dr sedan? Cobalt sedan. Want a 4dr sedan, but dont want a sedan? 5dr Pontiac. See how easy that works?
GTO. Drop the stupid scoops and tell the puritsts to go stuff it. Add some fender flares like on the Coupe4. It adds 1000x more agressiveness to the GTO then "scoops". 400hp, good. Bigger brakes, good. Interior, awesome. Right now, the GTO is one of the best bang-for-your-buck out there, IMO anyway. Fender flares will make this car so much more agressive.
Grand Prix and Bonnie. Cut them both, bring in G8 please. 3.6, 5.3 and 6.0 engines. 6spd manual option. This will make Pontiac a true sport division.
The Solstice is a deffinate hit out of the park. I hope they launch a GTP model at introduction. 200-240hp would be good.
Buick, well this division is mixed. I like the direction they are going, but they could do better. First, the LaCrosse is a deffiante good job. I do wish that since the GP now has the DVD based nav, how come the LaCrosse doesnt have the option? Its a luxury car and it NEEDS it. The CSV is nice, but not needed for Buick. I will cover the CSV issue later. Ranier is a nice SUV, just needs better interior materials, esepecialy for this car. This has to be soft leather, soft textures. Buick needs to revamp its line up, and I belive its doing so.
GMC...well, GMC is alright. Nothing really wrong except a better interior for all of there SUV's and Trucks. They have a goal, and they hit it.
Hummer. Well, coming from a division that makes a truck that yells at the top of its lugs, AMERICA!!, it does a good job. H2 is nice, and the H3 looks to be a crediable off-roader. Problem with the H3 is that the I-5 will not be able to pull that hefty load. The 4.2 I-6 should have been in there. Why not just build it off the GMT-360 instead of GMT-355? You gain a larger 6cyl engien and 5.3 V8. Thats a Hummer, and they could make it look totaly different. A deffinate beat down on the Jeep GC, hemi or not.
Caddy. Well, what can I say but clean up the CTS's interior and your gold. How about a bit more performance out of the 3.6? Lets up the 2.8 to 230, and 3.6 to 270. So what if you have to use high test...its a luxury car damn it!! Im sure people will be ok with it, despite gas prices. But, on the other hand it could be a good idea since gas prices are so high.

Did I miss anything?
I like Saab very much, and GM has gotten a lot out of Saab from the ecotec to its chassis design, not to mention a good division with loyal members and high saftey marks. But, the problem I see with the 9-3 and 9-5 is that they are still FWD. If Saab wants to be a unique performance brand, they need to come up with a RWD chassis. This is a good plan for the Beta/Torana chassis. I do really like the look of teh 9-3.

Also, there are several points that dont go to any one brand, but in general about GM.
WTF is with teh CSV's? There should only be 2, a possible 3. Saturn and Chevy. Thats it. Does Buick need a mini van? Does Pontiac need a minivan? Not at all. Chevy can take the people hauler, while the Saturn model has a bit more upper level trim. Cut down on the "rebadging"
Also, wtf is with the rebadging? I just saw pics of the Pontiac Torrent, and I had hoped that there would be a disticntly looking Pontiac mini-suv. Something that would have a very agressive yet fast looking design to stick it to the Murano or FX35. Something with over 200hp, agressive wheels, and very agressive body. No, what I saw was a ****-poor job of a rebadge. Is a Nox with Pontiac headlights, grill, and tail lights. I thought, no way...couldnt be. I was told this would be a totaly different model and not be a rebadge. WRONG. Why, oh why....who knows.
And the 3.4 and 3.8 engines should have been gone by now. I thought by MY05 there would be none, but I am wrong. The 3.5 and 3.9 need to ramp up production much faster. If you are gunna stick to OHV V6's, at least make sure they have the most power and of the newest design.
Also, why do we have soooo many GMT-360's? Do we really need that many SUV's? Could be at least have more then 2 body styles? If you are gunna save money by sharring chassis, then use some of the saved money on body pannels and interior.
How about the lack of OHC engines? The 2.8 should be working its way into more cars, despite cost, especialy Buick. The 3.8 should not be in the LaCrosse. The 2.8 should be.
Also, GM really really really really really really (as does Ford) need to work harder and faster for the FWD 6spd. I think the combo of gas-friendly OHV V6's with its low end torque, and a 6spd, which will be able to give the feel of more torque, as well as offer a double over drive, will have the car feeling almost too powerful, and get outstanding gas milage. The Malibu already gets the better gas milage then the Camry and Accord V6, and they are more "high tech" V6's with 5spd autos? And they use premium gas.
With things improving in GM, its becoming harder and harder to find the faults. But the faults they do have are large and deep. They need to start releasing cars that bring everything all at once. The C6, XLR, and STS are 3 of the only cars that I can flat out say GM brought everything to the table. You might not like there style, but thoes 3 cars offer great interiors, great performance over there competition, and offer the best all around in the group. Id throw the Cobalt in there, but the lack of the 2.4 is killing me. GM needs to offer the complete package. I dont care about more performance, but the total package. I dont want to hear "we are doing tihs to improve that". I want to hear "since we rock at that, we are going to rock even further, and harder, by doing this".

 

I've also noticed that about the SSR. The people that those appeal to probably dont care about HP, and the poeple that do care about HP, probably think the car is a little too "peppy".

What are the production numbers for those? Sales numbers? I've only seen one on the road, it was yellow, and I live in Houston where we see everything from '64 impalas with hydros to Ferraris, 700-1200 HP Supras in packs of 15(swear to god, they all smoked the hell outta me all at the same time) to blown first gens, etc. I cant believe I've only seen ONE. How in the heck are you gonna get the car to advertise itself? Every other good selling car does that. You see it, your more likely to buy it.

I would never have thought of buying an F-Body if I had never saw one, and now I currently own 3, and used to have 5.

They need to dump the SSR and I mean DUMP. Then put that money into their sport compact market(Cobalt, Ecotec, etc) to make more revenue so they can afford the Camaro. Advertise it and they'll buy it.

 

I've never liked the idea of the SSR, and this year they are coming out with the HHR (or something) which is basically an updated 1949 Suburban AKA: an SSR SUV.

Reasons SSR is lame:
1. it isn't that good looking. The Dodge Sidewinder is the only truck that pulled off looking cool in a car-like format. (Unless you include the El Camino and those tricked out lowrider trucks Mexican guys had in the 90's (some were kinda cool) in the same category). pic of sidewinder
2. I just don't like the idea of trucks with lots of horsepower. When people in trucks try to race me I just blow them off and think they are g@y. No matter how much horsepower a Ford Lightning or Dodge SRT-10 pickup has I don't like it. The SSR is no exception. The Sidewinder was basically just a badass squared off Viper with a truck bed, the SSR is more of a dorky little VW Beetle with a truck bed.
3. Owners of cars like VWs, PT Cruisers, and who should own SSRs don't like expensive cars with lots of horsepower usually. The car needs to be less than $30,000 and have less than 280 horsepower. The only weird car that was mass produced was the Prowler. That was a badass car, looked amazing, especially from the back and seeing those huge chrome rear wheels spinning. The only problem is, it was underpowered, it only had I think 240 horsepower. So while the sports car and performance car people were drooling over its looks, they didn't buy it because the horsepower was too low. It wasn't cute enough to attract many "theme" car fans and it was too expensive really to attract them also. Most theme cars are suitable for highschool kids, the Prowler wasn't. It looked so tough many non-car enthusiasts thought it was too powerful for their son or daughter to drive, not realizing it had only 240 HP and never bought it.
4. I may not see many SSRs on the road, but I'm sick of the damn billboards and crap! I see them all the time and even have a shirt someone gave me from the State Fair of Texas with an SSR on it -___-.

 

In 97 I was in the market for a full size 4 door sedan RWD. The only two out there I was interested in were the Impala SS and Crown Vic/Grand Marquis. I have been a chevy person since '78, and would have prefered the SS. People wanted too much money for them If you could find a good condition 5.7. Found a 92 Crown Vic cheap, so I bought it. Nice car, but way underpowered. In Aug 2002 the engine went. In Jan 02, I saw the speed channel test drive on the Merc Marauder and it interested me. Finally a Crown Vic/Grand Marquis type 4 door with enough power. They put out a commercial on the speed channel, and I saw it a few times during Winston Cup racing. Didn't do a lot of advertising. Why? First saw one in Oct 2002 at the dealer. $35k, too much at the time. Found a 99 Grand Marquis for less than half the price. 6 months later went back to the dealer and made an offer on a Marauder they had and got it for 28,700 with them paying off the Grand Marquis. I can't belive they're not advertising the car. I'm sure they would sell alot more. I kind of like the idea it's a low production car and people still ask what kind of car it is.

Where is GM's full size 4 door RWD V8? I don't buy by make anymore. I buy what I'm looking for. I don't jump at the first thing. If there's some things that I don't like, I don't compromise. Advertising helps but it's not a selling point, for me anyway.

I got on this site because it seemed like a Camaro site. I've been very dissapointed in finding it's mostly people who want to ricky race. Where is the herritage, the history, the people who want to preserve what Chevy has kept alive for 36 model years? I don't blame Chevy for cancelling it. Now what are we going to do to keep the memory alive? All I read is modify, modify, modify!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!