guionM

Of course, there are times when the only thing that gets around the heavy stuff is AWD and 4WD. But how often during the year does that happen?

If you live in Fairbanks, Alaska, Lake Tahoe California, or Vail Colorado then having an AWD truck or SUV as a local police car or year round vehicle is a pretty good idea. If the only thing someone has ever driven in their life is a FWD vehicle, then they should stay with that in the winter. But if you count the number of days in your area where the roads are so bad that you actually need an AWD vehicle, it's likely to be in the single digits of 365 days.


But I always gotta laugh my frigging butt off whenever I see a post where I read the notion that a RWD vehicle is all but immobile in the snow.

If back when I barely had a year on my driver's license in a nose heavy F100, let alone a 65+ year old lady or a girl in high school and college can get around through entire multiple Pennsylvania winters with just as much snow on the ground as anyone today has to deal with, or I could drive my modern Z28 around Reno with an actual 6" of snow still on the road surface itself (it snowed while I was up there), I think that posting the idea of RWD is useless in the snow is a example on how whussy and whiny today's car drivers (including even many car enthuisasts) have become.

90 Z28SS

Yep me too . My Trans Am vert had to endure a couple winters, and at the time was a 11 sec car . 225/55 blizzaks on the stocker 16" wheels got me around without problems at all, and I am in the heavier lake effect snow belt off lake michigan .

96_Camaro_B4C

Oh, GM is by no means alone in this foolishness.

Tim_Z28

Longer wheelbase

96_Camaro_B4C

That shouldn't give it a handling advantage. Ride advantage, sure, but not a handling advantage.

I rather doubt that the Caprice 9C1 will outhandle an SS, but it isn't impossible.

30thZ286speed

Going for a ride in the Caprice PPV. (click on pic. for video)
[IMG][/IMG]

R377

Looks like they raised the LCD display up a few inches compared to the G8, should allow them to have Nav in the civilian versions now.

91_z28_4me

WOW does that look like a current gen Impala!

Slappy3243

My point is not that 2WD vehicles can do well in the snow. They can and they do. I drive one year round. The point is, emergency vehicles have to be prepared for the absolute worst. No, I don't care if Joe Blow can't go to the gym for a few days after some harcore snow fall. However, last year showed how unprepared our emergency vehicles were for prolonged heavy snowfall. People died because they simply were not accessible by RWD vehicles. I don't know if you are referring to me when you say that people think RWD can't be driven in the snow, but that is not what I am saying.

Wild Willy

I specifically asked this about 3 posts in- if you ever drove one, you know what I am talking about. Friend had a former Z56 police package Tahoe with headers and 4.10 gears- came with positraction and the heavy-duty suspension, and you could embarrass most cars on the highway. They handle far better than they look like they would. Remember, all the weight, the frame, engine, axles, tranny are all down low. Only thing that is high is the sheet metal and glass on the body. You would have to work pretty hard to roll one, I am sure that most of the time they would push or do a power-on oversteer.

I have a former service 4WD Tahoe, was a K9 unit from NYC area. 3.73 gears, G80, dual battery, even the rear heat and A/C for canine comfort. Nice truck- it is actually a Z71 even though it came without flares, fog lamps or the 'important' Z71 stickers and badges. Also flex-fuel.

Z28x

That should be 2WD vehicles because I doubt a FWD would have been any better. Even the best 4x4 will still get stuck if you run out of ground clearance. A 4x4 Tahoe isn't going to make it though a road covered in 18+ inches of new snow.

30thZ286speed

Here is another video I shot and a few more pics.

(Click on pic. for video)

Slappy3243

True. I actually meant to write 2WD. I will edit my post. A 4WD Tahoe is going to fare much better than a 2WD one in heavy snow. Yes, there comes a point where there is too much snow for any consumer vehicle, but the 4WD extends this capability.

Flip94ta

I havnt updated my location but I'm living in a lake effect snow belt in N. Ohio now and I'd say 90+% of the police cars here are 2wd, mostly vics and specifically in my town hemi chargers. I've seen them launch hard and I'm pretty sure they are posi equipped, let alone traction control. Most places like this where you get around 100 inches of snow a year are well equipped to clear roads. A tahoe with a G80 is probably the best 2WD police car in snow. I've driven a G80 equipped suv for 4 years and it makes me wonder as well why all rwd don't have one. And don't confuse a SUV for a nose heavy pickup, they are very close to 50/50 weight distribution. And if I remember right GM lowers them an inch for pursuit duty and that live rear axle has quite a suspension attached to it, light years ahead of most of ours old torque arms. The tahoe is under tired for police duty, it will plow rather than hook and it's tough to flip without something to trip it. As for top speed I don't see any cop going 140 in anything, thats what radios are for. I think the publics preception of what cops want and what they actually want are two differnt things. The ones I talk to say give them the biggest thing you got for two reasons, space and "tactical maneuvers".

guionM

I'm refering to how so many people today have this tendacy to look at RWD as an incompetent way of getting around in anything but dry sunny weather. Then they throw some extreme examples to back up that view.

You just did it above.

You pointed out that people died because they weren't accessible by RWD vehicles.

If we are talking about drivers being stranded, then they wouldn't be accessible by FWD vehicles either since they most likely were driving them and were themselves stranded.

If we are talking people stuck in unheated homes, then it isn't RWD cars that caused them to die being stuck in unheated homes did.

If we are talking about simply accessing individuals in emergency situations, they why not simply ban all 2WD police cars (regardless as to front or rear drive) and go 100% AWD SUV in law enforcement across the board and equpt them with big high traction off road tires, which seems to be the logical resolution of your point?

That way you would completely solve the issue of being stuck and unprepared in "emergency" situations because you'd have AWD vehicles ready for any emergency with high ground clearence that would clear the many feet of snow the east got last year, floods, and any other natural disasters.

The reason I would imagine that doesn't happen is that 99.9% of law enforcement usage of vehicles don't require an off road vehicle. I also imagine the lives you save in having a quick, stable, well balenced 2 wheel drive car save many, many, many times over any lives saved having something on the level of a Humvee as a police vehicle.

No one said anything about worse case emergency vehicles. But these vehicles have to be specialized because they simply are not the best choice for all purposes. Every agency I know operates on a tight taxpayer funded budget, they have to put most all transportation resources on the vehicles that do the best all round job, and have a couple of vehicles around for those extreme cases.

There's a reason the rear wheel drive Crown Victoria, and now the Charger are taking up just about 4/5 of all police vehicle purchases. There's also a reason that GM is importing the rear drive Caprice to compete in the law enforcement market.

Roads aren't buried in snow most of the year, even in the Northeast. Even when they are, any snow that will strand a RWD car will also strand a FWD.

Unfortunately, today, so many people have been so far removed from rear drive vehicles that they simply don't know any better than to look at RWD as dangerous and useless in rain or snow.

I guess years of having RWD primarily on nothing more than high powered cars with the worse possible tires for snow (extremely wide, asymetrical, performance tired designed to throw rain away from the center of the tread, while forgetting that a thing called snow tires exist) has created this RWD=DEATH mentality...... outside of police and those who learned to drive in 60s and 70s era RWD cars through the hills of Pennsylvania and West Virginia, and did so.......all year round!!