IZ28 and UNVC

I reread my post and I guess it came across as being somewhat obnoxious. It wasn't meant to be at all. I know there are plenty of you on this board who truely believe that the 3rd gens are the most recongizable as being a Camaro. I am a fan of the 3rd's as well but would like to see the car follow the body lines of the 1st or early 2nd gens. The reason being is that I don't want my next car to be a hatch. Also, I would prefer that the car be a little more upright. As far as the nomad concept, the jury is still out on that one. To this point, my favorite concept has been Crispy2k's first rendition from C&G. Give me that car and I will be in heaven.

 

I like 1st Gens because they were the best looking Camaros.... EVER!

After that, the 4th gens and early 2nd gens. Then the late 2nd gens and late 3rd gens. The worst Camaros ever were the 74-77 2nd gens.

I'll bet you're in your 20's correct? Most twenty-somethings grew up with the IROC-Z's and to them the 3rd gen means Camaro. The rest of us over 30 grew up with the 1st and 2nd gens. To us, the 67-73 Camaros stand out because they were the performance years for Camaro.... until the late 3rd gens and 4th gens when the musclecar was reborn.

My youngest stepson will be 18 next month. He has a 67 Camaro SS/Z28 clone. (If you saw the car through the link in my signature, you'd know why I combined the names. ) I'd offered buying him Camaros in the past and he absolutely hates the 3rd gen Camaros. He says he doesn't like 4th gens unless they have nice rims and a stick. (He still likes to drive my Z28 though because of the T-tops. ) Thank God the Z-generation is waking up and appreciating the classic musclecars from the past. (He isn't totally retro, since his daily driver is supercharged 96 Mustang GT. )

Quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of all the bitching about the 5th gen Camaro being too much styled after the 1st gen Camaros. Heck even the 4th gens had a stylized the hood flutes found on the original 67-69 std. Camaros. The 96-02 Camaro SS had a stylized version of the rally stripes found on the 67-69 Z28. And the 3rd and 4th gens had T-tops which were introduced in the middle of the 2nd gen run.

If the Chevy Coupe concept conceived is going to be the next Camaro... quite frankly I see hints from each of the previous 4 generations in it. To me it looks evolutionary and not retro. To be honest, any one that can not see this is just plain clueless IMO.

Furthermore to say 1st gen Camaros were not as popular as they are now???

I was 13 in 1978. That's when I fell in love with the 1st gen Camaros. In high school I wanted one, but couldn't find one I could afford or one that anyone was willing to sell or was worth fixing up. In 1985, I finally got my first 1st gen Camaro. I owned it for six years, then sold it to my little brother, who was 16 at the time. That was 1991. He loved that car, hot rodded it and drove it like he stole it! He sold the car three years later when he needed something more practical as a daily driver. That was 1994. In 1995, I bought my new Z28, to be my daily driver... however I still dreamed on owning another 1st gen Camaro.... no not 2nd or 3rd gen.... 1st gen. While I could afford to buy a 2nd car at the time, I lived in an apartment and didn't have the place to work on a weekend toy. (Part of the reason I sold my original 1st gen to my brother.) In 1999, I got married and in 2001, my then almost 16 year old stepson said he wanted a '69 Camaro. And thus the chain of events that got me where I am today.

I have always prefered the 1st Camaros because of their style, grace and good looks. Yes my 95 Z28 is more reliable and performs better than either of our 67 Camaros.... but it sure doesn't get the same "looks", smiles and thumbs-up that they get every time we drive them. I am more than likely to buy a loaded top-dog 5th gen Camaro if it resembles the concepts we've been speculating on. However, I will continue to also own a 1st gen Camaro as my weekend fun car, until the day I leave this planet.

Just about the only thing that would stop me from buying a 5th gen Camaro is if they retroed it solely after the 3rd generation. That would SUCK in my opinion.

So while you're saying the 1st gen popularity is only a recent event... I'm saying based on my experience, they've been popular since the day Chevrolet rolled the first Camaro ever off the assembly line.

 

That was exactly the point of the excercise.

To take the 1999 Nomad concept, turn it into a coupe, and show that it also meets the criteria that evok outlined over at C&G.

I really could give a rats *** if people like the car or not. My only goal was to show that by making it a coupe and adding the 4th gen SS hood scoop and mirrors that it meets the criteria that was first posted over at C&G.

Quite frankly I'm getting a little fed up with the people that refuse to see the big picture...

... that is

... inspite of no news, official announcement, or actual pictures of a prototype... GM is actually working on a Camaro replacement.

Forget about what it looks like for a minute. Does the specualted Chevy Coupe have Camaro-like form and features? Yes.

If you cannot see this, and if you do not think this is a "good-thing", then quite frankly... WHY ARE YOU HERE!?!?

 

I finally got around to making the only other change that I know of that comes from an "official" source...

Camaro SS take 3

That single change is that the body line extending from the trunk apparently continues on into the door a la C6 rather than blending into the quarter panel. I am aware of no other design hints that have been dropped so this is for now, the "final" take for me. I personally think that IZ28's tweaks make the car more 1st gen retro than it really will be.

 

Ironic that you said this.

I noticed the same thing even back when I saw SharpShooter_SS's 1st version.

Let's play what if...

We already know that GM wants to return to RWD 2+2 performance coupes and that FWD is most likely dead. For all purposes the FWD V6 Monte Carlo we know today, is dead no later than 2007-2008. (Play close attention to those dates. )

RP has asked for folks to send in what "Camaro" means to them. (So far, only 4 people have. )

guionM, evok (@ C&G) and others have confirmed that a prototype RWD Chevy coupe exists.

That coupe, as it stands, could either be called Camaro, Chevelle, or even.... Monte Carlo.

I don't believe they will build more than one Chevy coupe. The current coupe is called Monte Carlo. They have copywritten the name "Chevelle" recently. They currently cannot build another Camaro unless it is done in Canada.

Doesn't it make sense then that the proposed coupe covers all bases, so when they decide which name will be the most successful (i.e. profittable), they can call it whatever they want without any major changes?

 

Very nice.

I wouldn't mind seeing a version with the Nomad nose though. (grill blacked out instead of "chrome" though.)

 

The grille/chrome bar definitely needs toning down - it has already been "stated" that there are 4 headlights not 2 so I won't be working with 2. I will take a shot at it over the weekend - no time today.

Your point about one concept-three production possibilites is interesting. I also agree that it is unlikely that Chevrolet will have more than one RWD performance coupe creating product overlap especially given that Chevrolet doesn't dominate the market as it did when all three cars were available simultaneously not to mention Nova and Impala/Caprice coupes.

I thought I heard it here on the board that the Monte was probably going bye-bye around 08. My only concern is that traditionally the Monte and Chevelle were proper upright mid-size personal coupes whereas the Camaro has always been smaller and more vette-ish in execution (though not quite to that extreme of sporty). That's a fairly broad chasm for a single design study to bridge successfully. It is something to ponder though.

 

That is too much post to reply too there jg. I don't wanna wear out the keyboard typing.

I know alot of this stuff is opinion but I think when you grow up only has only a tiny bit to do with it. When I was younger I went crazy when I saw 3rd's but when I saw 2nds I was just like, no. And they were new only a few years before, it's 3rd's that got me into Camaros. I just know what looks nice. I wasn't around when 1sts were new but I still like them a good amount. I also know many people that were here for the 1st Gen that like the looks of the 3rds better. It goes all different ways. Even if I don't like 2nds and 4ths much it's always good to see an F-Body. And yes I have looked at the 67 with the stripes in your sig, MANY times LOL.

I think you are a little too quick to accept anything with a Camaro cue or two as a new Camaro. You can be a fan but you have to also be the biggest critic. Am I excited that they are working on the car? Of course! I will be happy that it's back even if I don't like it much, but of course I would rather like it. I want a car that creates excitment something like like the 3rds and 1sts did when they hit the street. And yes 1sts were popular, but their new found popularity and value among the public was not this way until recently, enthusiats yes, the average person no. They have become this way because of the rarity, the age, hype from TV auctions, and people wrongly thinking that musclecars were only musclecars until 72, etc. I think with the overall public 3rds are still what people see as the meaning of Camaro as the poll said and having near full length open grill cars in these days is just something that I can't think of as being really nice. It was OK in the 60's obviously, but now, I just don't think so.

Gibbs, n/p.

SS, my intent was to use cues from all Gens.

 

I think it actually does matter when you grew up. Here's why. I was 1-year old when the Camaro debuted in September 1966. Buy the time the musclecar era died out in 1974, I was only 9-years old. Clearly there's no way I was in to cars at that stage in my life.

I first started getting into musclecars and hot rods in the late 70's. It was just about the time of "Smokey & the Bandit" and the Bandit drove a BADASS black TransAm. Other than the very late 70's f-bodies, everything else up to that point I had seen as a new car from Detroit, had been CRAP! (Remember the Mustang II?) Imports were a joke and were primarily a little tin can on wheels. They only sold well because of the oil crisis. I still remember my folks trading in their big green 350-V8 1970 Chevy Kingswood Estate wagon for a 1980 Datsun 310GX....

By the time I was getting ready for my first car, the new 3rd gen f-bodies were about to come out. While they were a vast improvement over the 2nd gen, they still didn't offer a lot performance-wise and besides, there was no way I could buy a new car at 16. Since 78-81 Camaros we're still too new to be affordable (my parents insisted I pay for my own car and insurance) and 74-77 Camaros were duds; the only thing available and worthy of hopping-up were the late 60's to early 70's musclecars. So basically there weren't very many choices at the time.

Now for someone who is in their late twenties today; by the time they got into cars at 12-16, the 3rd gen Camaros were at their peak and there were hot cars coming out Detroit. Of course these cars would make a bigger impression on someone at the time. Plus the fact that there were so many other options at this point in time with the ponycar wars between the f-bodies and the mid-late 80's Mustangs.

Today kids have even more options with the inexpensive highly modifiable imports available.
I'm not quick to accept anything if its crap.

I hated the quad-headlamps on the 3rd gens when they first appeared. (Camaros had always had only two headlamps to that point.) However the new look of the 3rd gens grew on me... and besides.... the car still said Camaro.

The main problem with the public's perception of the Camaro being soley through the 3rd gens, in many cases it leaves a negative connotation. I know my wife's hatred of them is through her impression of 3rd gen owners from 10-15 years ago. The early 4th gens look very similar (except more rounded) thusly that image continued up until they were put on hiatus.

I'm hoping Chevy builds a new image, and not one that weighs too heavily on any generation. But mostly, I just want to see the Camaro return...


... as long as its a V8 RWD sports coupe.

 

not obnoxious at all man
i'm glad to hear everybody's opinions, it really makes for a good discussion
and i guess us 3rd gen guys really like our cars so...we tend to protect them a lot

 

BTW, anyone know where Z284 is?

 

That other roofline you guys are putting on it is way to curvy and bubbly.

What about this? Kinda looks like a monty carlo rear, but I like it a lot. I just did this in Paint, so yeah.

(might have to copy and paste into your address bar)

http://joferz.cz28.com/CCconcept.JPG

 

Am I the only one that really hates the "body darts" on all of these concepts?

Don't get me wrong. I like them fine on the 69 Camaro. The problem I have will them is that these have been on all of the Nomad concepts. They have them on the current Impala. And now the new Malibu has them also. These are quickly becoming generic family design cues for Chevy, much like the dreaded chrome bar grill.

I really do not want the next Camaro to have generic styling like this. The Corvette would never have common styling themes with the impala and malibu. Camaro should not either! The other problem is, I think this syling feature will be old and tired by the time the 5th gen debuts.

 

To become generic styling, wouldn't there have to be more than one manufacturer, and more than one form of vehicle using the same styling cues?

What part of the Chevy SSR is generic?

 

I thought I had already described that in some detail.

If every car Chevy makes has the same grill and the same body darts on the side of it. Then yes, that would be generic.

SSR: Last time I looked at one, it had the same generic chrome bar grill as all of chevy's other cars.

Different forms of vehicles using the same styling cues: Lets see, Full size chevy trucks, small chevy trucks, SSR, Impala, Malibu, Next C coupe? all using the same chrome bar grill. Pretty much covers most of the "forms of vehicles" I can think of.