Did anyone read this (Bob Lutz's press warning)?
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Originally posted by unvc92camarors
correct me if i'm wrong but...
i thought nobody said the malibu was anything to get excited about except the fact that it is like a camry
meaning..it has better interior, better quality, and a boring design just like the camry or corolla or whatever (i'm not good with toyota products)
i mean, when's the last time you sat in a camry and said "wow, this is one slick car, inside and out"?
point being, people are glad the general is finally stepping up to the plate and making cars with better quality
correct me if i'm wrong but...
i thought nobody said the malibu was anything to get excited about except the fact that it is like a camry
meaning..it has better interior, better quality, and a boring design just like the camry or corolla or whatever (i'm not good with toyota products)
i mean, when's the last time you sat in a camry and said "wow, this is one slick car, inside and out"?
point being, people are glad the general is finally stepping up to the plate and making cars with better quality
The 2004 Malibu doesn't have a "better interior, better quality, and a boring design just like the camry or corolla or whatever (i'm not good with toyota products)." It's actually is a poorer car in many respects than the Japanese competition. Hopefully, the incentives will bring the price down into the Chrysler/Korean import league.
That's where the Malibu belongs.
GM can't build credible cars, but they still have the ability to lash out at publications that tell the simple truth. Stinkers like the Aztec, L-series and Ion don't just happen. It takes years of indifference, layered with unfounded arrogance and institutional stupidity to turn out crap so consistantly.
Last edited by redzed; Nov 22, 2003 at 01:07 PM.
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 15
Originally posted by morb|d
i'm surprised nobody brought up the Koreans in this discussion. when Korean auto makers first started exporting cars to the US, they got their asses handed to them by the media for inferior build/materials quality among other things. but fast forward 20 years and what do we have? Koreans have made outragious strides in product content and quality control because that was their main focus and objective for over a decade. you truly can't go wrong with ANY Korean make/model today and the media reflects that. BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING GOOD CARS.
i'm surprised nobody brought up the Koreans in this discussion. when Korean auto makers first started exporting cars to the US, they got their asses handed to them by the media for inferior build/materials quality among other things. but fast forward 20 years and what do we have? Koreans have made outragious strides in product content and quality control because that was their main focus and objective for over a decade. you truly can't go wrong with ANY Korean make/model today and the media reflects that. BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING GOOD CARS.
Let's see where Koreans are on this list, yup right at or near the BOTTOM!
Last edited by Nelson C; Dec 8, 2003 at 01:13 AM.
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Joined: Jan 1999
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From: Panhandle of West Virginia
Originally posted by redzed
Now that American car have become homogenized beyond recognition, their inferiority is becoming all the more obvious.
There was a syndicated review of the Buick Ranier that most newspapers carried today, and it was a shocker. If newpaper auto reviews are normally bland and congratulatory, this one was very critical. The author complained about the price of the Ranier, and touched on the fact that it lacked side-curtain airbags. Shortly after reading my morning paper, I went out to look at a Ranier.
Guess what? The Ranier sucks just every bit much as the article indicated. For $42,500 this vehicle is a rip-off. The leather was the same quality as my Z28 - not "luxury-quality" stuff for sure. GM is pushing a crude, dated and wimpy product with fantasy land pricing.
Lutz can try strong-arm tactics, but it doesn't change the reality.
Now that American car have become homogenized beyond recognition, their inferiority is becoming all the more obvious.
There was a syndicated review of the Buick Ranier that most newspapers carried today, and it was a shocker. If newpaper auto reviews are normally bland and congratulatory, this one was very critical. The author complained about the price of the Ranier, and touched on the fact that it lacked side-curtain airbags. Shortly after reading my morning paper, I went out to look at a Ranier.
Guess what? The Ranier sucks just every bit much as the article indicated. For $42,500 this vehicle is a rip-off. The leather was the same quality as my Z28 - not "luxury-quality" stuff for sure. GM is pushing a crude, dated and wimpy product with fantasy land pricing.
Lutz can try strong-arm tactics, but it doesn't change the reality.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,418
From: New Orleans, LA
Peoples' perception of quality lags about 10 years behind reality.
Look at Oldsmobile, for example. The cars that they sold in the '70's and early '80s were generally pretty crappy. But they sold in record numbers. Why? Because consumers still had that "perception" of quality that Olds had a decade earlier. Olds had a 10 year feebie and squandered it.
No one can deny that domestic manufacturers pretty much screwed the quality pooch for a long time (GM's "Road to Redemption" campaign even acknowledges this)....but now their are some pretty good products available and comming in the pipeline.
Is it fair that consumers and press look at domestics with a jaundiced eye? Maybe not....but who says that life is fair.
The only way out of this, is sustained high quality products...that slowly...over a period of years changes peoples' minds. It's going to be a long road to hump.....but unfortunately their are no short cuts. GM and the rest of the domestics will have to do it the old fashioned way......they'll have to earn it.
Look at Oldsmobile, for example. The cars that they sold in the '70's and early '80s were generally pretty crappy. But they sold in record numbers. Why? Because consumers still had that "perception" of quality that Olds had a decade earlier. Olds had a 10 year feebie and squandered it.
No one can deny that domestic manufacturers pretty much screwed the quality pooch for a long time (GM's "Road to Redemption" campaign even acknowledges this)....but now their are some pretty good products available and comming in the pipeline.
Is it fair that consumers and press look at domestics with a jaundiced eye? Maybe not....but who says that life is fair.
The only way out of this, is sustained high quality products...that slowly...over a period of years changes peoples' minds. It's going to be a long road to hump.....but unfortunately their are no short cuts. GM and the rest of the domestics will have to do it the old fashioned way......they'll have to earn it.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
You seriously brought back a 4 year old thread for that?
At least its nice to look back at the article. GM has taken major steps in removing many of millions from the LA Times.
Also shows the quality raitings from 03, and where the car's lie now. Funny to see that Hyundai is now up twards the top.
At least its nice to look back at the article. GM has taken major steps in removing many of millions from the LA Times.
Also shows the quality raitings from 03, and where the car's lie now. Funny to see that Hyundai is now up twards the top.
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: The Land of Pleasant Living
I remember it well, largely due to the fact that Mr. Lutz, basically backed up something I had been saying for probably 15 years or more. Long before I was ever ranting and raving on this board about this thorn in my side.
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If this means that much to Uncle Bob, instead of whining about it in the public and sounding like a child that did not get his way, quietly pull the money from the rags. It is that simple.
MT, Automobile, Car and Driver etc are buff enthusiast magazines and not technical peer reviewed publications. They are entertainment. If Lutz does not agree with their opinions, pull the dollars.
I just pulled out a MT from March 2006 with the Camaro on the cover that I had in front of me. Out of the 18 OEM ad spreads that I counted, 4 were from GM. The GM ads were for the Impala, GMC PU, Chevrolet Tahoe and Pontiac G6. I did not see one ad from the Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW or MB brands. There was one Lexus, one Acura a couple from Infiniti. The bulk rest were Ford and Hyundai with a Suzuki, Jeep and Lincoln.
If Lutz believes their opinion is influential on the public, design product that will appeal to that reader base. If not suspend the advertising.
This is as bad as Lori Queen crying in the press about Consumer Reports recently. What GM needs is less talk and more 900s, Lambdas, NG Malibus and NG CTS that appear to be getting good press instead of excuses. Speak with the product and not more lip services and Road to Redemption ads.
MT, Automobile, Car and Driver etc are buff enthusiast magazines and not technical peer reviewed publications. They are entertainment. If Lutz does not agree with their opinions, pull the dollars.
I just pulled out a MT from March 2006 with the Camaro on the cover that I had in front of me. Out of the 18 OEM ad spreads that I counted, 4 were from GM. The GM ads were for the Impala, GMC PU, Chevrolet Tahoe and Pontiac G6. I did not see one ad from the Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW or MB brands. There was one Lexus, one Acura a couple from Infiniti. The bulk rest were Ford and Hyundai with a Suzuki, Jeep and Lincoln.
If Lutz believes their opinion is influential on the public, design product that will appeal to that reader base. If not suspend the advertising.
This is as bad as Lori Queen crying in the press about Consumer Reports recently. What GM needs is less talk and more 900s, Lambdas, NG Malibus and NG CTS that appear to be getting good press instead of excuses. Speak with the product and not more lip services and Road to Redemption ads.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,496
From: Roseville, MI, USA
If Lutz believes their opinion is influential on the public, design product that will appeal to that reader base. If not suspend the advertising.
This is as bad as Lori Queen crying in the press about Consumer Reports recently. What GM needs is less talk and more 900s, Lambdas, NG Malibus and NG CTS that appear to be getting good press instead of excuses. Speak with the product and not more lip services and Road to Redemption ads.
This is as bad as Lori Queen crying in the press about Consumer Reports recently. What GM needs is less talk and more 900s, Lambdas, NG Malibus and NG CTS that appear to be getting good press instead of excuses. Speak with the product and not more lip services and Road to Redemption ads.
The Saturn Aura, car of the year.
The Cadillac CTS, arguably the best car for it's price. Especially amongst entry level luxury vehicles.
The Chevrolet Cobalt is a winner. Imagine if they fixed every little complaint about the ride of the Aura. Which, I've read of none by the way.
The Pontiac G8 will do well, and will sell better than Solstice + Sky combined.
The Vue is all-new for 2008. As well as an all-new dual mode hybrid drive train. One that is said to improve mpg by near 50%.
The list goes on and on.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,712
From: Ontario
This is from 2003...but the product is there, Evok. The GMT900 Silverado. Truck of the Year.
The Saturn Aura, car of the year.
The Cadillac CTS, arguably the best car for it's price. Especially amongst entry level luxury vehicles.
The Chevrolet Cobalt is a winner. Imagine if they fixed every little complaint about the ride of the Aura. Which, I've read of none by the way.
The Pontiac G8 will do well, and will sell better than Solstice + Sky combined.
The Vue is all-new for 2008. As well as an all-new dual mode hybrid drive train. One that is said to improve mpg by near 50%.
The list goes on and on.
The Saturn Aura, car of the year.
The Cadillac CTS, arguably the best car for it's price. Especially amongst entry level luxury vehicles.
The Chevrolet Cobalt is a winner. Imagine if they fixed every little complaint about the ride of the Aura. Which, I've read of none by the way.
The Pontiac G8 will do well, and will sell better than Solstice + Sky combined.
The Vue is all-new for 2008. As well as an all-new dual mode hybrid drive train. One that is said to improve mpg by near 50%.
The list goes on and on.
The thing to remember is, while GM is improving, the competition isn't standing still. A good example is the new 900s. They're a good evolution of an already good product, and are near the top of their class in most categories. But now Tundra comes out and suddenly the 900s aren't looking so unbeatable any more. GM needs to make some solid leapfrogs ahead of their competition, not just be be 'competitive'.
